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Is Max the GOAT???


TrueBlue82
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Just seeing this....guessing it was aimed at my comment.

Not down on Caleb at all, just high on the contributions to ORU basketball by Max and Tim GIll.

When the discussion turned to a Mt Rushmore, I think we can all agree Fuqua, Roberts, and Acres are set.  To me it's not just play on the court, but also impact on the school/program.

Max with the Sweet 16 run (including the 10s of millions in free media for the university) and the renovation of the Mabee / new athletic center which came about because of the NCAA success push Max past Caleb in my book.

As for Tim Gill.....now there is a guy that does not get his due.  Brought ORU back from the NAIA years, made ORUMBB relevant nationally by leading his team to the NIT as an independent, and helped get ORU into the Mid-Con.  And since you mentioned a Bill Self superlative, Self has stated the he regards Tim as the greatest shooter he's ever coached.

Good offseason discussion and no slight was intended toward Caleb Green.  Just my thoughts on why those two would be ahead of Caleb in a Mt Rushmore discussion.

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I'm glad that you mentioned Tim Gill. I suspect he is not discussed as much as the others is because of his (and Rocky Walls') temporary dalliance with Arkansas/Nolan Richardson.

Here is a link to Gill's stats:  Sports Reference - CBB (Tim Gill)

Tim was obviously the best three point shooter (career) in ORU history. He shot 44.0% for his four years at ORU - averaging 6.8 attempts per game. In his senior season he shot 48.5% (!!!) with an average of 6.3 attempts per game. Just think what he would have done under Mills' system.

Max has shot 39.4% from the 3-point line over three seasons - averaging 8.6 attempts per game. His best year was two years ago (sophomore) when he shot 42.9% on 8.3 attempts per game.

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Okay, my pervious post got  me to research ORU three point shooters and here is what I found (career and highest season stats) - in rough chronological order:

Gill44.0% (6.8 apg) career; 48.5% (6.3 apg) his senior year

Perry:  37.9% (5.0 apg) career; 44.3% (6.9 apg) his senior year

Atkinson:  37.7% (4.9 apg) career; 44.4% (5.5 apg) his senior year

Spencer-Gardner:  41.5% (3.6 apg) career; 46.4% (3.2 apg) his senior year

Bluitt:  38.5% (2.7 apg) career; 45..2% (1.1 apg) his freshman year

Tutt:  41.2% (6.6 apg) career;  44.9% (8.0 apg) his freshman year

Riouse47.2% (3.4 apg) career - 2 years; 50.0% (1.7 apg) his first year (So)

Jarvis:  36.8% (7.5 apg) career - 2 years; 40.9% (6.9 apg) his first year (So)

Ehambe:  40.9% (4.3 apg) career; 43.1% (4.4 apg) his junior year

Morrison: 38.4% (3.3 apg) career; 42.3% (3.8 apg) his senior year

Obanor:  42.5% (3.3 apg) his ORU career; 46.3% (4.3 apg) his junior/last year at ORU

Abmas:   39.4% (8.6 apg) career;  42.9% (8.9 apg) his sophomore year

You will notice that most of the players had their best shooting stats in their senior season...

The three point line (19'9") was initiated in NCAA basketball during the 1986-87 season. The line was pushed back to 20'9" during the 2008-09 season and then pushed back further to 22’1-3/4" during the 2019-20 season. Abmas wishes he could shoot three pointers from where Gill took his shots....

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6 hours ago, ORUTerry said:

I'm glad that you mentioned Tim Gill. I suspect he is not discussed as much as the others is because of his (and Rocky Walls') temporary dalliance with Arkansas/Nolan Richardson.

Here is a link to Gill's stats:  Sports Reference - CBB (Tim Gill)

Tim was obviously the best three point shooter (career) in ORU history. He shot 44.0% for his four years at ORU - averaging 6.8 attempts per game. In his senior season he shot 48.5% (!!!) with an average of 6.3 attempts per game. Just think what he would have done under Mills' system.

Max has shot 39.4% from the 3-point line over three seasons - averaging 8.6 attempts per game. His best year was two years ago (sophomore) when he shot 42.9% on 8.3 attempts per game.

What is this Arkansas dalliance you refer to? That was some good childhood memories for me, that was a great duo. But I wasn’t a member of the forum back then so maybe missed out on some intel.

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Tim Gill and Rocky Walls both announced their transfer to Arkansas after their junior seasons. Bill Self objected loudly and accused Nolan Richardson (Arkansas head coach) of tampering. Richardson feigned ignorance and said he didn’t want the two players. Self convinced Gill and Walls to stay at ORU… and then left for TU about a month later. 

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Sounds about right for Billy Self = No Integrity......🙄

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20 hours ago, Ting said:

What is this Arkansas dalliance you refer to? That was some good childhood memories for me, that was a great duo. But I wasn’t a member of the forum back then so maybe missed out on some intel.

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/1997/06/01/prized-pair-create-mess-at-oru-gill-walls-first-lose-their-loyalty-then-their-credibility/62312549007/

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Last year, Max was a hot topic with the preseason publishers.  Many had him as a first or second team all american.  Will we see that again this year or does he fall back into just being a good player? Is the hype gone?

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11 hours ago, Keenan Henderson said:

Last year, Max was a hot topic with the preseason publishers.  Many had him as a first or second team all american.  Will we see that again this year or does he fall back into just being a good player? Is the hype gone?

In-between:  if he makes any preseason All-American teams, it will likely be as an honorable mention. 

What’s more perplexing is the obvious Max fatigue afflicting some media and blog-types that follow the Summit League closely.

Many of them appear obsessed this off-season with touting anyone and everyone they can think of aside from Max as breakout players for this next season. 

Max will likely be named the preseason league POY, but it feels like it’s begrudgingly in place of the other first-teamers from last year who transferred out. 

Why Max is not held in higher esteem by league “experts” when he’s “the one who stayed” is beyond me. 

Maybe his new nickname should be The Prodigal’s Brother…

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It will be extremely interesting to see how Max plays this season without the nagging injury he seemed to endure all of last season. If he is healthy he should have a strong season with all the talent Mills is surrounding him with. If he is healthy and does not distinguish himself like he did in 20-21, it may be because he has not had a #2 guy like Obanor as a secondary threat. Who will most likely be that guy this year? 

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7 hours ago, dave said:

It will be extremely interesting to see how Max plays this season without the nagging injury he seemed to endure all of last season.

This^^^^

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Max is the only first team all summit league guy returning next year, so not sure who would even be in the running with him for preseason Summit League Player of the Year.  Maybe AJ Piltzeski from South Dakota but he is coming off an inury and missed the entire 21-22 season. 

I would agree with you OT in that Max seems to have fallen off of most people's radar (outside of the forum) and will probaly not be on any 1st-3rd All American teams.  With all this talent that ORU has, Max will most likely not lead the nation in scoring this year.  He might even drop a little to say 20 points a game, instead of the 23-24 he averaged the last two seasons.

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I don't know if it was just me but in those Pacers workout videos Max looked bigger and was elevating higher (almost like how McBride does with his jumper).

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36 minutes ago, Dr. Cornelius said:

I don't know if it was just me but in those Pacers workout videos Max looked bigger and was elevating higher (almost like how McBride does with his jumper).

Agreed!  His vertical has increased, and he’s always been a sneaky-quick leaper on long rebounds. 

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On 6/18/2022 at 11:05 PM, Keenan Henderson said:

Last year, Max was a hot topic with the preseason publishers.  Many had him as a first or second team all american.  Will we see that again this year or does he fall back into just being a good player? Is the hype gone?

Max has already been mentioned on at least two early lists of Top 25 returning players, coming in at #22 by Andy Katz and #8 by The Field of 68, so I wouldn’t say that the hype is gone.  There’s no doubt that a season without KO and some nagging injuries have reduced his overall standing in the media’s eye, but he’s still very much on their radar screen.  If he returns to 20-21 form early in the season, they will quickly jump on the Max bandwagon. 

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It is very impressive that Max was a Top 5 scorer nationally while playing through an injury for at least 2/3 of the season.

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Here is a text from Max’s Dad. “Max is headed back tomorrow…..time to meet the new team members and form the bond. If everyone comes to play this year we have a great chance to do great things”. If any of you haven’t met Troy and Erika Abmas yet I hope you will meet them this year and it will become  clear why Max is such a special young man!

 

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TheEagleman loves Max.....but as of today....the Mt. Rushmore of ORU Men's Basketball is still....Roberts.....Fuqua....Acres and Green......this will be open to review again after the 2022-23 season but for now.....case closed.....:circle-logoi:

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So cool ORob1! Thanks for sharing!

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ORob1 , so exactly how tall are you? …..

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I’d say I’m about 6’-3” but continue to measure just under 5’-11”… 😁

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Just asking because you were standing pretty close to Max. Wonder what his true height is. 

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