TrueBlue82 Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 Before everyone takes the summer off of the Board and we boldly shift into haiku season, I wanted to raise this thought-provoking question - Is Max the GOAT? It’s difficult to answer, because everyone has a different definition of greatness, and we are also all impacted by the timeframe in which each of us has followed ORU Athletics. But, although it’s a difficult question to answer, it’s also a valid question to ask. So, I invite you to respond to one or all of the following: A. Is Max Abmas the G.O.A.T. of the ORU Athletic program? B. What criteria do you consider in determining the G.O.A.T? C. If Max is not the G.O.A.T., then who is, and why? My response… A. When I started to prepare this post, I really didn’t know what my own personal answer would be…I just thought it would create an interesting conversation. But, after further contemplation of the criteria that I believe GOATness should be evaluated upon, and reviewing Max’s career, I think Max WILL be the GOAT when his ORU playing career ends (unless some unforeseen disaster occurs in the interim). B. My evaluation of greatness covers a few key categories: 1. Individual Performance 2. Team Success 3. National Acclaim And, while they are not required, bonus points are earned for: Character Excellence as Student-Athlete Ambassador for the University and its Mission Individual - Max is an elite shooter/scorer and a quality team-leader. Lead the nation in scoring in 20-21 and top five in 21-22 Team – Max was a key member of the 2021 Sweet Sixteen team National Acclaim – Two-time All-American, NCAA Scoring Title, Mid-Major Player of the Year, National Scholar-Athlete of the Year. Max earns MEGA bonus points due to his strong work ethic, his loyalty to return (twice) when he could have bolted for “greener” pastures, his national Scholar-Athlete award, and by serving as an amazing ambassador for ORU during the Sweet Sixteen run and beyond. C. Others in my top five of the GOAT conversation: Richard Fuqua Anthony Roberts Mike Moore Mark Acres 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 2 hours ago, TrueBlue82 said: A. Is Max Abmas the G.O.A.T. of the ORU Athletic program? Performance-wise? No. But all-around? Maybe! B. What criteria do you consider in determining the G.O.A.T? Your criteria are excellent. C. If Max is not the G.O.A.T., then who is, and why? On the floor/field? It's Anthony Roberts or Mike Moore - you just had to see them: bigger, stronger, more dominent - men among boys every time out, against even the best competition. Same can not be said for Max. But, all things considered? Max certainly checks every box! 1. Individual Performance Maybe Top 10 for all sports? Along with Anthony Roberts, Richard Fuqua, Mark Acres, Mike Moore, Joe Rassett, Krista Ragan and/or Kevi Luper, Prince Mumba and/or Andretti Bain, etc. 2. Team Success. Top 5, with 1974 Elite Eight team, 1978 World Series team, national runner-up 1981 golf team. 3. National Acclaim Easily the G.O.A.T individually And, while they are not required, bonus points are earned for: Character Demonstratively Top 5 Excellence as Student-Athlete. Arguably No. 1 when combined with athletic achievements Ambassador for the University and its Mission Top 3 with Kevin Obanor and pseudo-ORU athlete Madeline-Manning Mims. Shocking how few of these there are! See thoughts above in red... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 And, as we transition into the dog-days of summer... "Max Abmas 'the goat'? Arguably best ever, but not that simple! " 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORob1 Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 Madeline Manning-Mims and the Greg Davis family were friends of my parents. We lived in Grad Student Housing and Madeline would pick up and drop off me and little Scottie Davis after ORU summer sports camp. It must have been the summers of 77 & 78… Speaking of all around GOATS, Wouldn’t, two sport star, Greg Davis (basketball & baseball) be at least an honorable mention? Rob 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORU40 Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 2 hours ago, TrueBlue82 said: B. My evaluation of greatness covers a few key categories: 1. Individual Performance 2. Team Success 3. National Acclaim And, while they are not required, bonus points are earned for: Character Excellence as Student-Athlete Ambassador for the University and its Mission Individual - Max is an elite shooter/scorer and a quality team-leader. Lead the nation in scoring in 20-21 and top five in 21-22 Team – Max was a key member of the 2021 Sweet Sixteen team National Acclaim – Two-time All-American, NCAA Scoring Title, Mid-Major Player of the Year, National Scholar-Athlete of the Year. Max earns MEGA bonus points due to his strong work ethic, his loyalty to return (twice) when he could have bolted for “greener” pastures, his national Scholar-Athlete award, and by serving as an amazing ambassador for ORU during the Sweet Sixteen run and beyond. C. Others in my top five of the GOAT conversation: Richard Fuqua Anthony Roberts Mike Moore Mark Acres Max has had an incredible career and has done great things for the University on a number of levels. But I honestly don't see him being anywhere near our GOAT. Just using these criteria, I don't see Max in the conversation. He has been a great ambassador for ORU, but really isn't a top 5 player in ORU history, he will not be drafted and probably won't play in the NBA, Fuqua put ORU basketball on the national map, Roberts was a 1st round draft pick, Mark Acres was a 4 year All American and the only McDonalds All American who came to ORU and long time NBA player, Alvin Scott, Calvin Garrett and Greg Sutten were much better basketball players, Looking at team performance Caleb Green went to 2 NCAA tourneys and was a much better individual player then Max. Max had a great lighting in a bottle run into the sweet 16, but overall he's played a weak schedule and in a very poor conference. He's a great shooter but not a great all round player, not being negative, just an honest assessment that I'm sure he's heard in the last couple draft process's, I greatly appreciate his loyalty (there are also a lot of reasons former players don't come back that I wont get into here) he's a all time great, but IMHO no where near our GOAT! Go Eagles!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idig32 Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 17 minutes ago, ORU40 said: Caleb Green went to 2 NCAA tourneys and was a much better individual player then Max. I definitely think Max is better than Caleb Green and it is possible Max gets to two NCAA tourneys. Even if he doesn’t, Max has 2 more tourney wins than Green, which should count for something. Max is definitely the GOAT of the 2000’s, which is really the scope of my experience watching ORU basketball. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keenan Henderson Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 It may be too early to tell. He still has his senior season to go. If Mid Court Max leads the nation in scoring and brings ORU back to another Sweet 16 in the NCAA tournament then yes he should be considered the goat. As we often say on the forum, time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORU40 Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 36 minutes ago, Idig32 said: Even if he doesn’t, Max has 2 more tourney wins than Green, which should count for something. You could argue that Keven Obanor was the best player in those 2 tourney wins, he's also been back to the sweet 16. We see Max through the lens of today, it may not be as impressive in years to come. As Keenan says, time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 Fair to say that Max is definitely in a very small group of the most important athletes in ORU history. And he's not done yet. Look at it this way: Richard Fuqua may be "The Man Who Built The Mabee Center", but Max is "The Man Who Rejuvenated The Mabee Center...and More!" 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeagleman5 Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 A N T H O N Y R O B E R T S.......plain and simple....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keenan Henderson Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 We should give Coach Mills some credit for finding and keeping Max. Really no one besides the military schools even showed any interest in Max coming out of high school but Coach Mills did. He really found a diamond in the rough and that is probaly a big reason why Max has stayed all four years. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 This discussion seems to be heading to an inevitable end; "What men's basketball players would you put on ORU's Mount Rushmore?" My four would be: Max Abmas Caleb Green Anthony Roberts Richard Fuqua Other considerations: Kevin Obanor, Ken Tutt, Mark Acres, Arnold Dugger, Alvin Scott. I know there are others. Interested in what the rest of you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmg1984 Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 52 minutes ago, dave said: This discussion seems to be heading to an inevitable end; "What men's basketball players would you put on ORU's Mount Rushmore?" My four would be: Max Abmas Caleb Green Anthony Roberts Richard Fuqua Other considerations: Kevin Obanor, Ken Tutt, Mark Acres, Arnold Dugger, Alvin Scott. I know there are others. Interested in what the rest of you think. Calvin Garrett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmg1984 Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 Eddie Woods Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeagleman5 Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 Anthony Roberts.....Richard Fuqua.....Mark Acres......Caleb Green...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORUJason Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 The Eaglemans list right now is the most accurate IMHO. Possibly after another season of Max he could possibly edge out Mark Acres. There is also a debate as to whether Caleb Green should be edged out instead of Mark. Stats are a big part but also overall success too. Greg Sutton might be 5th right now for me. He was an amazing shooter who had a lot of quickness and the ability to elevate as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeagleman5 Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 First Four out.....Greg Sutton....Max Abmas.....DoMo....Eddie Woods....honorable mention to Tim Gill, Ken Tutt and Sam McCants Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORUalum Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 I'd put Max above Caleb Green on Eagleman's list.....probably put Tim GIll ahead of Green also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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