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Schedule 22-23


Keenan Henderson

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Wonder if ORU could schedule Kansas State, since their new coach (Tang) is an old friend of Coach Mills and they worked together at Baylor?  Here is an idea of who should be on the schedule for this upcoming season based on contracts from last year:

Home games (5): UCA, Missouri State, and a couple of non-Division 1 teams.

Road games (3): Tulsa, OSU, and UT Arlington.

If you add the 18 conference games, then that is already 26 matchups that are mostly set in stone.  So that really only leaves about 3 or 4 unknowns among the non-conference opponents.

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6 hours ago, ORU82 said:

 For fun I searched Gonzaga's OOC schedule to determine who they play and found it very interesting.

Oh gosh now youre comparing ORU to a perennial Top 10, Final Four and National Runner Up team in a multi-bid conference? Bad idea! Apples to Oranges. Comparing a team with an unlimited budget to a team who is apparently being asked to play basketball games in order to fund an athletic department. 
 

Playing devils advocate, what does a Power 5 team have to gain from playing ORU? If a team is going to spend $80,000 or more for a game, you can guarantee you that they want a good return on their investment. Why would they schedule a team that won 19 games last year, returns 4 majorly contributing players from a Sweet Sixteen team only two years ago, signed a 7’3”’ player from Univ of Arkansas, and has potentially the nation’s leading scorer coming back for his fourth year of college?? Not to mention lost by 1 in OT to OSU, beat Tulsa at home, lost by single digits on the road at TCU, OSU and Wichita State in the last 2 years and by 11 at Arkansas the year they made the Elite Eight.  When they can easily spend money on a team that they can beat by 35 points or more?
And please don’t say “because they want a good challenge before conference play.” Teams don’t pay money to have close games. Those are what home and home series and Thanksgiving Tournament games are for. 
 

Sometimes it surprises me when I read things from people that actually played college basketball. I know it’s hard for some of the “diehard” fans to realize, but coaches don’t schedule games to appease fans in a certain geographical region. Coaches schedule games that A) they can win, and B) don’t break the bank on travel costs. Which explains why teams would much rather schedule regionally (ie: Arkansas, OU, OSU, Wichita State, TCU) than use money out of their paycheck to fund airlines tickets, hotel and food in order to travel a farther distance. 

 

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50 minutes ago, GoldenEagleFan said:


 

Playing devils advocate, what does a Power 5 team have to gain from playing ORU? If a team is going to spend $80,000 or more for a game, you can guarantee you that they want a good return on their investment. Why would they schedule a team that won 19 games last year, returns 4 majorly contributing players from a Sweet Sixteen team only two years ago, signed a 7’3”’ player from Univ of Arkansas, and has potentially the nation’s leading scorer coming back for his fourth year of college?? Not to mention lost by 1 in OT to OSU, beat Tulsa at home, lost by single digits on the road at TCU, OSU and Wichita State in the last 2 years and by 11 at Arkansas the year they made the Elite Eight.  When they can easily spend money on a team that they can beat by 35 points or more?
And please don’t say “because they want a good challenge before conference play.” Teams don’t pay money to have close games. Those are what home and home series and Thanksgiving Tournament games are for. 
 

 

Golden Eagle Fan is all over it. Did you talk with Tim Johnson too?! What you said is exactly what he told me. Either Tim is lying or he is being factual. I personally take him at his word. In this current time period teams don’t want to pay big bucks to potentially lose. As ORU fans we are getting to watch better teams than in the past number of years. Even with questionable defense we still have played with and beat some P5 schools. These are growing pains we will have to go through. Unfortunately we have a limited budget and are at the mercy of big schools being willing to pay us. I was told other mid majors like Loyola Chicago are experiencing the same issue.

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39 minutes ago, GoldenEagleFan said:

Playing devils advocate, what does a Power 5 team have to gain from playing ORU?

This is ORU's true road record going back to the 16-17 season. The only wins during that time period are against: Houston Baptist, Chicago St., Richmond, Little Rock, & FGCU. So no I don't think that any P5 school is afraid to play ORU.

21-22: - (1-4)

  • Colorado St. - L
  • Central Arkansas - L
  • TCU - L
  • Houston Baptist - W
  • Missouri St. - L

20-21 - (0-5)

  • Missouri - L
  • Wichita St - L
  • Oklahoma St. - L
  • Oklahoma - L
  • Arkansas - L

19-20 - (1-6)

  • Oklahoma St. - L
  • Tulsa - L
  • Iowa - L
  • Wichita St. - L
  • Creighton - L
  • Chicago St. - W
  • BYU - L

18-19 - (1-7)

  • Missouri St. - L
  • TCU - L
  • BYU - L
  • Oakland - L
  • SMU - L
  • Missouri - L
  • Wichita St. - L
  • Richmond - W

17-18 - (2-8)

  • Tulsa - L
  • Oklahoma St. - L
  • Pepperdine - L
  • Penn St. - L
  • K-State - L
  • Little Rock - W
  • UNLV - L
  • FGCU - W
  • Arkansas - L
  • Minnesota - L

16-17 - (0-6)

  • Baylor - L
  • Oakland - L
  • Michigan St. - L
  • Oklahoma - L
  • Missouri St. - L
  • Creighton - L

 

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5 minutes ago, eagle88 said:

These are growing pains we will have to go through. Unfortunately we have a limited budget and are at the mercy of big schools being willing to pay us. I was told other mid majors like Loyola Chicago are experiencing the same issue.

I agree that it is getting more difficult for schools in ORU's position. Some leagues like the B1G and ACC are incentivizing members to not play smaller school & expanding the conference schedule.

BUT just looking at ORU's recent road record I don't see how programs like Duke would think playing ORU at home translates into a possible loss. OSU plays ORU almost every season and I doubt that will change unless a previous contract is ending. I am sure Musselman will probably play ORU again in Bud Walton as well.

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I’ll play devil advocate for a minute. In 20-21 we beat Ohio State, Florida and almost beat Arkansas. Our smaller margins of losses in recent years appear to be making the big boys a little more concerned about us. When was the last time in ORU history that we did something of this magnitude? Even in the Sutton era when we made several NCAA appearances we didn’t come close to making it past the first round. If it could be proven that Duke made that comment about not wanting to play us would that change anyone’s mind?

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1 hour ago, Dr. Cornelius said:

I agree that it is getting more difficult for schools in ORU's position. Some leagues like the B1G and ACC are incentivizing members to not play smaller school & expanding the conference schedule.

BUT just looking at ORU's recent road record I don't see how programs like Duke would think playing ORU at home translates into a possible loss. OSU plays ORU almost every season and I doubt that will change unless a previous contract is ending. I am sure Musselman will probably play ORU again in Bud Walton as well.

Are you willing to put $80,000+ on it if you’re a Power 5 AD? ORU returns everyone except for 4 players who didn’t play and 1 starter in Lacis, then they go out and add 2 Power 5 transfers (one who is 7’3”)plus a UT-Arlington starter. 

Forget win/loss record “pre-sweet 16”. Do you think teams are judging ORU on their record from 2017? Why would Porter Moser risk losing an in-state game to ORU in year 2 at OU? Why would Mike Boynton risk losing an in-state game to ORU when the last 3 years they have won by 1, 5 and 6 pts. Why would Musselman play ORU after losing Vanover to ORU and having an Arkansas guard in Issac McBride being extra motivated to play? Why would TCU play again when they only won by 8 pts last year at home? Why would SMU, Missouri or LSU play and risk losing a home game in their first years as head coach at their respective schools? Why would Wichita State play when he is clearly on the hot seat going into next season?

There’s a lot more taken into account than “look at how they defend the post” or “look at their record on the road”. I think every high major coach is more worried about the “7-8 players who can all make a 3ptr” than how many pointe they give up on the block 😂

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9 hours ago, ORU40 said:

I think the AD may be trying to sell the Brooklyn bridge, we can schedule top teams if we want to. We will of course have to travel, but there is no way any power 5 school is afraid to play us, and the AD saying Duke wont play us because we "are too good" is laugh out loud funny/ridiculous!!!

IMHO its the AD not doing everything needed to get it done! I played 2 years at ORU and granted it was few years ago, but AD's Bob Brooks and Larry Cochell with the basketball coach's got the best teams in the country on ORU's schedule. Most were home and homes ( one year played at the Mabee and one year at their place) and some we only played at their place, but if you want to play the best you may have to do it on their terms( that's what Anyone, Anytime, Anyplace means), but it can be done.

Over just my 2 seasons our OOC games included: Home and Home- Texas, Texas A & M, Oklahoma St., Kansas St., Tulsa. Home only- LSU. Road games only- Kansas, North Carolina, UCLA, Arkansas, San Diego St., Bradley. That's almost 20 OOC games against the best teams in the country in just 2 seasons, and I'm sure everyone on this board has memories of the teams during their time on campus playing top competition!! 

That fantastic sweet 16 run is now 2 seasons ago, if we want to stay relevant in college basketball and continue to grow our program we need to play and occasionally beat the big boys, nothing helps keep the attendance up and student & local interest like beating a Texas or Okla St.!! It has to be a priority, we need the full university committed; the president, AD and coaches.  

ORU basketball has a long, proud history of playing the best- anytime, anywhere! We need to get back to that, the AD/program needs to stop making these weak/not believable excuses and get it done!!

Thank you, ORU40 - you saved me a lot of typing that might have come across to some as self-serving, based on my connections to your and my father’s times at ORU. 

There are so many ways to skin the cat when it comes to scheduling; things like relationships with opposing coaches, the desire to play in particular recruiting grounds, and fear of the embarrassing blowout on the road are just three of many factors that can weigh into the scheduling process. 

I can’t blame any AD for “spinning” the bad news of not being able to put together an attractive schedule. But that doesn’t change the fact that if what they’re trying now on the scheduling front isn’t working, then they need to try a different approach.

It’s just like recruiting, graduating players, the W-L record, etc. - tired excuses about lack of results (and making it sound like there’s nothing that can be done about it) coming from the AD or the coaches when you’re the highest-paid staff in school history is weak sauce. 

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1 hour ago, GoldenEagleFan said:

Are you willing to put $80,000+ on it if you’re a Power 5 AD?

It's been a pretty good bet over the past decade+. You have to go back all the way until before 2011 before you would see some evidence to the contrary.

You can't say "Well, P5 programs are just afraid to schedule us" but then not have any wins to back that assertion up. If ORU was winning consistently on the road then yes that would make sense.

In the end I think ORU will have some road P5 games on the schedule.

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11 minutes ago, Dr. Cornelius said:

In the end I think ORU will have some road P5 games on the schedule.

I agree! And I hope ORU starts to win a few! Because once they do, it will REALLY be a challenge to schedule 😂

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Scheduling in today’s environment has all kinds of considerations:

  • Home games:  getting a good (P6) team to visit the Mabee Center would mean a 2-1 or 3-1 arrangement - which would diminish or negate the money received. A more reasonable strategy would seem to be setting up home & home contracts with comparable schools in the region (Central Ark, UALR, Mo St, North TX, TX-Arlington, etc). Some of these schools may not want us gaining exposure in their recruiting area. Maybe a creative approach would work: regional tournament, like minded schools (Abilene Christian, Liberty, Grand Canyon, etc).
     
  • Away games:  a large portion of our basketball budget is derived from playing P6 schools on the road. The athletic department and coaches are motivated to find (and play) these games. The schools/coaches booking these games expect you to come in and take your loss along with the check. If they think there is a chance of losing and trying explain that to their fan base, they aren’t going to sign the deal. ORU needs these games (4-5) for financial reasons but we are at their mercy in terms of contracts. TCU tried to back out last year but we held them to the contract. 
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20 hours ago, GoldenEagleFan said:

Sometimes it surprises me when I read things from people that actually played college basketball. I know it’s hard for some of the “diehard” fans to realize, but coaches don’t schedule games to appease fans in a certain geographical region. Coaches schedule games that A) they can win, and B) don’t break the bank on travel costs. Which explains why teams would much rather schedule regionally (ie: Arkansas, OU, OSU, Wichita State, TCU) than use money out of their paycheck to fund airlines tickets, hotel and food in order to travel a farther distance. 

I have to respectfully disagree with you GoldenEagleFan,  using your 2 reasons for scheduling, why would we play anybody but NAIA teams at home?? All wins and no travel costs!! Games are scheduled for many other reasons, 1). Money- being one of the main reasons- P5 road games pay very well and provide a large portion of mid-major athletic dept. budgets, and you also want good home games so attendance is up which generates not just gate revenue, but corporate partnerships and merchandise sales and donations to the university and even admission application increases.  2). Recruiting, you want to play where your recruits and their families can see you. 3). Coaches will absolutely schedule in a geographical region for the fan base, particularly for large financial supports of the program or an area where several current players are from. Also program recognition, a college team is always trying to build it's brand. 

Just for the record, playing a road game that's 250 miles away is only slightly less costly then playing a game 1500 miles away. The only cost difference is the airfare. Hotel, food, per diem money, and the ground transportation costs once there are the same and if it's the difference between playing another mid major for little $ or a P5 team for a big fat check its a no brainer! 

 

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29 minutes ago, ORU40 said:

Just for the record, playing a road game that's 250 miles away is only slightly less costly then playing a game 1500 miles away. The only cost difference is the airfare. Hotel, food, per diem money, and the ground transportation costs once there are the same and if it's the difference between playing another mid major for little $ or a P5 team for a big fat check its a no brainer! 

Not true. Teams have to spend another night after the game instead of being able to bus back immediately after the game, as red eye flights are not available. This causes teams to pay for another night of hotel and more meals… adding the cost of airline tickets for a travel party of 20+, multiple nights at a hotel for a travel party of 20+, plus more meals for everyone in the party.

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1 hour ago, GoldenEagleFan said:

Not true. Teams have to spend another night after the game instead of being able to bus back immediately after the game, as red eye flights are not available. This causes teams to pay for another night of hotel and more meals… adding the cost of airline tickets for a travel party of 20+, multiple nights at a hotel for a travel party of 20+, plus more meals for everyone in the party.

Sorry for the confusion, I was saying the only cost difference between a road trip that is a 1 hour flight away versus a 3 hour flight is the additional airfare. And yes it's always the same for OOC road trips, fly in the day before the game-practice with an early lights out, have your shoot around and meeting/film, pre-game meal as a team on game day then play the game- stay the night and fly out first thing the following morning- it's the same no matter how far the flight. I cant imagine we are bussing to more then a game or 2 per season, at least I hope not!!  

If we are passing up good non-conference road games because it's too far to bus to, then we have bigger problems than I thought!!!

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Getting back to the here & now of the 2022-23 schedule:

  • Road game at Tulsa
  • Road game at Oklahoma State
  • Road game at Texas-Arlington (if this tweet from a year ago is still accurate)
  • Presumably 2-3 games in the Mabee Center vs. non-D1 opponents, per Paul Mills scheduling philosophy (they don't weaken your NET rating since they're not included, but they bolster the W-L record presuming you take care of business as expected).
  • 18 conference games

That's 23 or 24 games right there; looking for 4-5 more D1 opponents for a minimum schedule of 28 games, which is about all Mills has scheduled since COVID.

The big question for us typical season ticket buyers, and any potential ones:  whether there will be ANY non-conference home games other than the non-D1's...

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My guess is the Central Arkansas game will return to Mabee Center? Thanks OT for compiling. Hoping for some good additions 🤞🏼

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It would be nice for the Eagles to start the year with a home game.  As you said Golden Eagle Fan, UCA would be a good one.  Thinking back to the last few years when ORU started on the road, and got blasted (Colorado State and Missouri come to mind) by about 30 points.  Let's not have that happen again.

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 5/8/2022 at 9:06 PM, GoldenEagleFan said:

My guess is the Central Arkansas game will return to Mabee Center? Thanks OT for compiling. Hoping for some good additions 🤞🏼

 

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