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On 5/9/2021 at 6:37 PM, Dr. Cornelius said:

I think Max will be back unless he gets a first round promise. I hope he gets one!

 

The thing with the late first round is that is when a lot of the better teams pick the Euros type of guys that they can draft and stash for a year. I believe there are like 8 of them already that have declared for the draft. With more to come i think. 

The Athletic just came out with their draft and Max is not on there but may have come out before he declared.

I believe he will end up in the 40s range. Is that enough to stay in? Is he set on starting to make some $$? if he gets drafted in the 2nd round he may pick up some guaranteed $$. Or of course overseas would still be an option. 

It will be tight at the end of the 1rst round but hope he makes it in. Wishing him the best as he was a blast to watch!

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I've heard it said that the NBA is a players game/league and college is a coaches game. It appears (although it is only after one truly successful  season) that we have a true coach. As coaches, Mills and his staff know how to recruit, develop and get the most out of their players. They know how to prepare the players, make in game adjustments and help them play at a higher level than expected. That's what coaches do.

But it is more evident that Mils and staff are committed to pastor, mentor and develop young men. Remember the, "We are not that important" line at the press conference? How many other coaches say that? Not many, maybe none. That's Philippians 2:3 in practice. "Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves." In my mind, that makes our coach really special.

We all want a basketball team and program that excels at the highest level because it allows us all who are ORU alums to puff our chest out and go into the office and say, "That's my school!". It's so much fun to watch ORU be successful on the big stage.

I am pretty confident that this whole "Max" thing has not caught Mills off guard. Shoot, he said Max was forbidden to come back if the right situation came along. Again, he was not thinking of himself and his immediate situation, but thinking of what is best for the other person; in this case, Max. If we have a mediocre year next year (which I doubt) it might not be as much fun during March, but I am really confident that Mills and his staff will still be about the business of developing the spiritual and personal character of the men (they are more than players) who are entrusted to his charge. If that happens, he will be doing his job and fulfilling his calling and that of ORU.

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With or without Max ORU basketball is on the rise. Obviously all of us would love to have Max come back.  Just like Gonzaga laid the proper foundation years ago it appears ORU is starting a similar journey. Will we attain the greatness that Gonzaga has, only time will tell. Mark Few and Paul Mills seem to have many similarities including high character, not just chasing $, truly caring about their players and coaches, wanting to build something from the ground up, both are good recruiters, both have a strong Christian faith( Mark Few attends the same evangelical  church as my sister and her family in Spokane). The list goes on but it appears really good talented players are now wanting to come to ORU. If Max goes 1st round in the draft ORU recruiting wins big time and if he comes back we win! Just like Jalen Suggs is one and done Gonzaga gets the #1 recruit this coming year. Success begets  success and that's why the faces may change year to year but like Gonzaga our success will increase!

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I didn't know about Mark Few Christian faith/church affiliation. Fantastic. I agree that he runs a fantastic program. I hope that ORU can achieve 1/2 of what the Zags have done. It looks to me like Mills and his staff could very possibly achieve that and more. 

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35 minutes ago, dave said:

I didn't know about Mark Few Christian faith/church affiliation. Fantastic. I agree that he runs a fantastic program. I hope that ORU can achieve 1/2 of what the Zags have done. It looks to me like Mills and his staff could very possibly achieve that and more. 

Whew! This is definitely a glass is completely full type of reasoning!:) I hope it happens. Let's start with winning the league championship in the next couple of years. Yes, I know they won the tournament championship.:) 

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On 5/10/2021 at 12:17 PM, ORU40 said:

You're absolutely right Old Titan, I don't know for certain that next years team will not be as good without Max as it would be with him. I'm just saying that its probably unlikely.

What happened this year was lightning in a bottle and history shows it will be very unlikely to duplicate.

I hope we're better next year then we were this year, but odds are we may not be. We have been to the NCAA tourney 6 times total; and as a proud member of the 84' tourney team and 85' team that didn't make it back, I know first hand that a prior years success is extremely difficult to repeat and all I'm say is doing it without; most would agree, your best player just makes it that much harder. You know what you get with Max, your recruits and new comers are hopefully as good as advertised, but who knows.

I'm absolutely hoping we can skin that proverbial cat next year and if anybody can its Coach Mills!! 

This year was amazing and I hope we can keep the success going, just being cautious regarding expectations is all.  

 

  

I always wondered why the 84-85 team didnt do as well care to share your opinion?

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Have you looked at the 84-85 schedule? LOL!

Tulsa (twice), LSU, Texas A&M, North Carolina, Texas, Oklahoma State, Arkansas, UCLA, Kansas State, followed by a really strong conference schedule that included Butler, Xavier, St. Louis, etc., all twice. 

Not any Rogers State, Southwest Christian, or Bacone, on the schdeule, followed by a conference slate of Western Illinois, Omaha, etc. 

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21 minutes ago, jmg1984 said:

I always wondered why the 84-85 team didnt do as well care to share your opinion?

In my opinion there were a couple of factors that keep the 85' team from having the success of the 84' NCAA tourney team. Please don't take this as excuses, the reason we didn't get back to the NCAA tourney is because we just didn't get it done.  

First of all, the schedule was tough: Our season started at the Mabee center against the Nolan Richardson TU team that was very good ( Stevie Harris 1st round draft pick and nicest person I ever played against), lost a close game, them played LSU at  home lost by 3, then beat Texas A&M, then at Dean Smith's North Carolina (Brad Daugherty, Kenny Smith & Steve Hale from Tulsa) , beat Texas, Okla St loss, Arkansas, at UCLA(Reggie Miller) and Kansas St, also played TU again and Bradley Non-Conference. So we got off to slow start, great games- the Mabee Center was such a great home court- good crowds, great fans!!   

Conference was also very good that year, the year before we won the MCC regular season and tourney (on a game winning shot by Butch Berry) and played at Memphis St. (Keith Lee, William Bedford) in NCAA 1st round. But in 85'(that seems a lot longer ago when you see it in writing) the MCC had Loyola of Chicago win the conference and they went to sweet 16 and had a 1st round pick and NCAA scoring leader in Alfredrick Hughes, also Xavier was very good as was Butler and St Louis and we ended up losing conference finals to Loyola of Chicago. 

One other factor was the loss of Kevin Magee from the 84 team, he was an outstanding defensive player, and a steady ball handler and a quiet leader. In 85 he was replaced by freshman Willie Irons who was probably not quite ready to be a starter at that level yet, the senior guard Dwight Givens might have been fit on that team. The coaching staff really wanted Irons to play because he was the only recruit brought in that year and was hoped to be a bridge for the future with younger guys Brian Miles and James Akin Akin Otako.

We all wanted to play that schedule (if you want to be the best you have to beat the best), but we got off to a bad start and never really recovered. And once you get off to a bad start and there are high expectations, you start to feel it, the players feel it and the coaches definitely start to feel it and it shows sometimes- their jobs are on the line.  

It was a very good team, not many 15-15 mid majors have 3 players taken in the NBA draft. 

That season was tough, but we wouldn't have wanted it any different because when you ran out of that tunnel at the Mabee center when it was rocking and you're playing TU, OSU, ARK or LSU, etc... it doesn't get much better than that!! 

  

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2 hours ago, oruvoice said:

Have you looked at the 84-85 schedule? LOL!

Tulsa (twice), LSU, Texas A&M, North Carolina, Texas, Oklahoma State, Arkansas, UCLA, Kansas State, followed by a really strong conference schedule that included Butler, Xavier, St. Louis, etc., all twice. 

Not any Rogers State, Southwest Christian, or Bacone, on the schdeule, followed by a conference slate of Western Illinois, Omaha, etc. 

Yes i knew that ORU played one of the toughest schedules in the nation. I was at the first 2 games, close with electric crowds! They just didnt get it done Loyola had a great team that yr

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2 hours ago, ORU40 said:

In my opinion there were a couple of factors that keep the 85' team from having the success of the 84' NCAA tourney team. Please don't take this as excuses, the reason we didn't get back to the NCAA tourney is because we just didn't get it done.  

First of all, the schedule was tough: Our season started at the Mabee center against the Nolan Richardson TU team that was very good ( Stevie Harris 1st round draft pick and nicest person I ever played against), lost a close game, them played LSU at  home lost by 3, then beat Texas A&M, then at Dean Smith's North Carolina (Brad Daugherty, Kenny Smith & Steve Hale from Tulsa) , beat Texas, Okla St loss, Arkansas, at UCLA(Reggie Miller) and Kansas St, also played TU again and Bradley Non-Conference. So we got off to slow start, great games- the Mabee Center was such a great home court- good crowds, great fans!!   

Conference was also very good that year, the year before we won the MCC regular season and tourney (on a game winning shot by Butch Berry) and played at Memphis St. (Keith Lee, William Bedford) in NCAA 1st round. But in 85'(that seems a lot longer ago when you see it in writing) the MCC had Loyola of Chicago win the conference and they went to sweet 16 and had a 1st round pick and NCAA scoring leader in Alfredrick Hughes, also Xavier was very good as was Butler and St Louis and we ended up losing conference finals to Loyola of Chicago. 

One other factor was the loss of Kevin Magee from the 84 team, he was an outstanding defensive player, and a steady ball handler and a quiet leader. In 85 he was replaced by freshman Willie Irons who was probably not quite ready to be a starter at that level yet, the senior guard Dwight Givens might have been fit on that team. The coaching staff really wanted Irons to play because he was the only recruit brought in that year and was hoped to be a bridge for the future with younger guys Brian Miles and James Akin Akin Otako.

We all wanted to play that schedule (if you want to be the best you have to beat the best), but we got off to a bad start and never really recovered. And once you get off to a bad start and there are high expectations, you start to feel it, the players feel it and the coaches definitely start to feel it and it shows sometimes- their jobs are on the line.  

It was a very good team, not many 15-15 mid majors have 3 players taken in the NBA draft. 

That season was tough, but we wouldn't have wanted it any different because when you ran out of that tunnel at the Mabee center when it was rocking and you're playing TU, OSU, ARK or LSU, etc... it doesn't get much better than that!! 

  

Thanks for a detailed and informative post. Will never forget listening to the ORU- Xavier game on a scatchy radio in Eureka Springs when Berry hit the shot from the keyhole.😀🏀

Was at the first Two games what an electric crowd with close loses!

I always thought losing Mcgee, a defensive standout was a big loss the next year and a reason for Mark Acres foul trouble.

Loyola with Hughes,Golston Battle and moore really stepped up their game that year Ending up ranked #14 in the nation and losing to Georgetown in the NCAA's

Im sure it was amazing to be be a Titan with all the great arenas, players and crowds you played before.🏀😀 Missed only one home game the years i was at ORU. (81-84) Thanks for sharing some memories and thoughts!

 

 

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4 hours ago, darrenj said:

Whew! This is definitely a glass is completely full type of reasoning!:) I hope it happens. Let's start with winning the league championship in the next couple of years. Yes, I know they won the tournament championship.:) 

I wasn't trying to be exact when I said "1/2 of what the Zags" have done. Just saying that they would be a great example of success for ORU to aspire to. I agree, we have a lot more to accomplish first.

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Maybe the most recent season that ORU had very high hopes was 2005-06.  They were coming off a 25 win season (including beating Georgetown and an NIT showing) and had about 75 to 80 percent of their team returning (Green, Tutt, Owens, and Bluitt).  That year the Golden Eagles received some votes in the beginning of the year's Top 25 poll but also played a very tough non-conference schedule and started out 10-9.  They did make the tournament as a 16 seed and ran into number two ranked Memphis.  Of course that ended pretty quickly in a first round loss.  ORU was called one of the best 16 seeds in tournament history.

Yes they made the tournament but that team always got me thinking, "What could have been if they started out stronger and maybe were a 13 seed by the time the NCAA's rolled around.  They had the talent to make a sweet 16 run, too!

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49 minutes ago, jmg1984 said:

Thanks for a detailed and informative post. Will never forget listening to the ORU- Xavier game on a scatchy radio in Eureka Springs when Berry hit the shot from the keyhole.😀🏀

Was at the first Two games what an electric crowd with close loses!

I always thought losing Mcgee, a defensive standout was a big loss the next year and a reason for Mark Acres foul trouble.

Loyola with Hughes,Golston Battle and moore really stepped up their game that year Ending up ranked #14 in the nation and losing to Georgetown in the NCAA's

Im sure it was amazing to be be a Titan with all the great arenas, players and crowds you played before.🏀😀 Missed only one home game the years i was at ORU. (81-84) Thanks for sharing some memories and thoughts!

 

 

That was a great time to be a part of ORU basketball and a lot of very fond memories. 

The one thing that I hope this years Sweet 16 run does is bring back the fans to the Mabee Center with the excitement and energy there used to be in that wonderful place.

A little better schedule would help, but like with the 85' team and what Keenen just said about that excellent 05-06' team, a tough non-conference schedule can defiantly be a double edged sword and come back to bit at the end of the year maybe costing you a post season bid or higher seed.  But, it would help get people in seats. 

I really wish they would bring back the home and home with TU each year, those were always fantastic games and the players and fans loved that rivalry. 

As an old timer, I'd love to see that electric atmosphere at the games back and I'm very confident that Coach Mills and this team will get the Mabee Center jumping again!  

 

 

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TU hates to play ORU once.....you think they would ever play us twice again?...not a chance.....those weasels up at 11th and Harvard don't have a pair.....they are scared of losing....which frankly they seem to be pretty good at....:circle-logoi:

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1 hour ago, ORU40 said:

That was a great time to be a part of ORU basketball and a lot of very fond memories. 

The one thing that I hope this years Sweet 16 run does is bring back the fans to the Mabee Center with the excitement and energy there used to be in that wonderful place.

A little better schedule would help, but like with the 85' team and what Keenen just said about that excellent 05-06' team, a tough non-conference schedule can defiantly be a double edged sword and come back to bit at the end of the year maybe costing you a post season bid or higher seed.  But, it would help get people in seats. 

I really wish they would bring back the home and home with TU each year, those were always fantastic games and the players and fans loved that rivalry. 

As an old timer, I'd love to see that electric atmosphere at the games back and I'm very confident that Coach Mills and this team will get the Mabee Center jumping again!  

 

 

I think the home schedule will be pretty good this year and not full of nonD1 teams. Let's hope!

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12 hours ago, ORU40 said:

That was a great time to be a part of ORU basketball and a lot of very fond memories. 

The one thing that I hope this years Sweet 16 run does is bring back the fans to the Mabee Center with the excitement and energy there used to be in that wonderful place.

A little better schedule would help, but like with the 85' team and what Keenen just said about that excellent 05-06' team, a tough non-conference schedule can defiantly be a double edged sword and come back to bit at the end of the year maybe costing you a post season bid or higher seed.  But, it would help get people in seats. 

I really wish they would bring back the home and home with TU each year, those were always fantastic games and the players and fans loved that rivalry. 

As an old timer, I'd love to see that electric atmosphere at the games back and I'm very confident that Coach Mills and this team will get the Mabee Center jumping again!  

 

 

The last couple of times we've played TU in the Mabee Center, the crowds have been well under 3,000. And, it's not much better when we've played at TU. And, our home attendance average has dropped to under 1,000 over the past few years.

It's really sad. 

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ORU40 - Thanks for your posts and recollections of those teams you played on. Great memories for those of us who watched (and cheered for) you. I have a good idea of who you are from your screen name. I always wished that you had the benefit of a three point line given your shooting touch. 
 

We have had former players come on the board in the past, but never really stayed to provide their perspective. I appreciate your unique assessments given that you played college basketball at ORU. Have you been back to campus recently and do you keep in contact with your former teammates? I’m sure the Athletic Department would love to hear from you - if they haven’t already. 

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Just now, oruvoice said:

The last couple of times we've played TU in the Mabee Center, the crowds have been well under 3,000. And, it's not much better when we've played at TU. And, our home attendance average has dropped to under 1,000 over the past few years.

It's really sad. 

Hopefully this year’s success will help turn this around a bit. All of the area schools have experienced a major drop off in attendance. Everyone is looking for the answer - if there is one. Winning will certainly help. So would keeping Max & Kevin in the lineup as draws to the game. 

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