Old Titan Posted April 21, 2020 Author Share Posted April 21, 2020 Final thoughts before backing away from the keyboard for the evening: if this kid is anywhere near as good as his press release makes him out to be, ORU fans should be in for a real treat this season. I would be curious to hear what everyone considers realistic expectations for "the HIGHEST ranked recruit in ORU men's basketball HISTORY" in his inaugural campaign. Ken Tutt numbers as a freshman, with the subsequent post-season accolades? Too high a bar? OK, how about Tim Gill numbers as a rookie? Still asking too much of a first-year player? What about Luke Spencer-Gardner? Took the reigns right off the boat from Australia as a freshman. Or, perhaps something more recent, like Max Abmas and his Summit League All-Newcomer stats of this past season? And, those are just impact freshmen guards from the past 25 years; not even talking about old-school 4-year star guards like Richard Fuqua, or Cat Johnson, or Jonathan Bluitt, or Earl McClellan. Seriously: what should we expect to see after this build-up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagleFan Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, Old Titan said: Final thoughts before backing away from the keyboard for the evening: if this kid is anywhere near as good as his press release makes him out to be, ORU fans should be in for a real treat this season. I would be curious to hear what everyone considers realistic expectations for "the HIGHEST ranked recruit in ORU men's basketball HISTORY" in his inaugural campaign. Ken Tutt numbers as a freshman, with the subsequent post-season accolades? Too high a bar? OK, how about Tim Gill numbers as a rookie? Still asking too much of a first-year player? What about Luke Spencer-Gardner? Took the reigns right off the boat from Australia as a freshman. Or, perhaps something more recent, like Max Abmas and his Summit League All-Freshman stats of this past season? And, those are just impact freshmen guards from the past 25 years; not even talking about HOF'ers like Cat Johnson or Richard Fuqua, who all had immediate impacts in the ORU backcourt right out of high school. Seriously: what should we expect after this build-up? Who is building him up besides you? You seem to be the only one who is reading so much into this press release that you couldn’t wait to read (which we all heard from you loud and clear). All I have read and all I have heard from Coach Mills’ interview is he is the highest ranked recruit ORU has signed since 247sports has been ranking kids (which Coach Mills clearly states as 1999). You say “why not call him a Top-200 recruit”? I am wondering why you wouldn’t you call him a 143rd ranked recruit, when that is what he is ranked? I haven’t read anything deeming him the next Ken Tutt. I honestly don’t expect a ton out of him his freshman year. With RJ coming back, and the new RJ coming in, I see him being a role player off the bench and down the road being a really solid guard for the Golden Eagles for *hopefully* all 4 years! Your posts are like clockwork: 1) OT is mad ORU didn’t do something (press release on signees) 2) ORU finally does what OT is mad about (press release on signees) 3) OT is mad about the way ORU did what OT was originally mad at ORU for not doing 4) OT brings up ORU names from decades ago in hopes of reliving glory days that are unattainable in his own mind 5) start back over at #1 about OT being mad about something else (probably the non conference schedule? I guess we shall see! ) Oh and attached is a screen shot I took of Bergens with 4 stars next to his name. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted April 21, 2020 Author Share Posted April 21, 2020 Hey, I'm trying to go to sleep here! lol Due to the late hour, I can't correct everything you misrepresented about my posts on this subject, but here's a shot: What's that old biblical/Abe Lincoln/Mark Twain/et al cliche that I have never seemed to learn my lesson from: "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt"? Well, to paraphrase in this case: "Better to not announce your signing class at all, than to do so in a manner that might create unrealistic expectations and undue pressure". It's reminiscent of when many of us on this forum (including me) felt that it was best to make a change following Scott Sutton's 20-loss campaign, then watched in horror as his removal was botched in just about every way imaginable. Which brings up another old chestnut: "Be careful what you wish for..." Another example? The marketing campaign splattered on billboards all over town the season following ORU's upset loss to Oakland in the Mid-Con finals: "UNFINISHED BUSINESS". Hey, no pressure there, right? That's EXACTLY the kind of message you want to send to a bunch of student-athletes who just had their hearts ripped out after winning something like 23 games the year before. Between Coach Mills video, the Tulsa World story based on the press release, and the associate athletic director's Twitter post (see all above), the young man is described as the "the highest-ranking recruit in ORU history", albeit with the "since 1999" asterisk qualifier kinda thrown in there, like the small-type legal jargon at the bottom of a car ad. And yes, as a long-time fan and a stickler for accuracy, I DO take issue with that sort of broad statement, for a number of reasons: It's unfair to an individual student-athlete to put that kind of label on him. He didn't ask for it. It creates unrealistic expectations for the fans, the students, the media, donors, sponsors, etc. (like the "Unfinished Business" campaign) It's disrespectful of ORU's rich basketball history, which (like it or not, millennials and current department members) FAR outshines the current status of the program. Why "dis" the past to promote your future? It's arguably not even accurate, depending on how you want to define player rankings over the years. I could go on, but I think that's enough for now; it's definitely more than your shrill, overtly-personal reaction deserved. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted April 21, 2020 Author Share Posted April 21, 2020 1 hour ago, GoldenEagleFan said: "AND ANOTHER THING..." lol Why does your 247sports.com screen shot show four little gold stars, yet the screen shot I just took (see below) shows three stars (which, let's face it, is still really good, but it's not four stars). Hey, suddenly I'm Star Trek's Captain Picard, in Cardassian custody: "THERE... ARE...THREE...STARS!!!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagleFan Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 I understand what you’re saying. I just am curious if you are the only one feeling this way (which based on the responses to the press release, it looks that way so far). Also, as an aside, it’s pretty funny that you found the slogan “Unfinished Business” as inappropriate. I would venture to guess that has been a marketing slogan for well over 1,000 athletic teams across the world in the last decade. I can think of another Mark Twain quote that comes to mind: 30 minutes ago, Old Titan said: Why does your 247sports.com screen shot show four little gold stars, yet the screen shot I just took (see below) shows three stars (which, let's face it, is still really good, but it's not four stars). I hope Bergens is a good player for the Golden Eagles. Like I said earlier, I don’t expect much from him as a freshman, but I do expect from around conference play of his sophomore year to when he graduates as a senior to have had an impactful career on the court! Anything he gives the team before then is gravy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keenan Henderson Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 The main thing about getting Bergens is that it shows Coach Mills is succeeding at getting good players. This recruiting class is a lot better then I and probably most of us thought it would be. So let's be thankful and look forward to next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted April 21, 2020 Author Share Posted April 21, 2020 6 hours ago, GoldenEagleFan said: I understand what you’re saying. I just am curious if you are the only one feeling this way (which based on the responses to the press release, it looks that way so far). Also, as an aside, it’s pretty funny that you found the slogan “Unfinished Business” as inappropriate. I would venture to guess that has been a marketing slogan for well over 1,000 athletic teams across the world in the last decade. I can think of another Mark Twain quote that comes to mind: I hope Bergens is a good player for the Golden Eagles. Like I said earlier, I don’t expect much from him as a freshman, but I do expect from around conference play of his sophomore year to when he graduates as a senior to have had an impactful career on the court! Anything he gives the team before then is gravy. Wow, OK - so I’m an idiot for not drinking the Kool-Aid. Whatever - nothing like going for the nuclear option when a conventional military response would suffice. It’s been interesting to be a part of the first decent activity on this board since the season ended. I guess I’ll be back to eviscerate the schedule when it’s released; I wouldn’t dream of varying from your “clockwork posts” theory. Stay safe, friends... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceManSpiff Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Old Titan said: Wow, OK - so I’m an idiot for not drinking the Kool-Aid. Whatever - nothing like going for the nuclear option when a conventional military response would suffice. It’s been interesting to be a part of the first decent activity on this board since the season ended. I guess I’ll be back to eviscerate the schedule when it’s released; I wouldn’t dream of varying from your “clockwork posts” theory. Stay safe, friends... Who is drinking Kool-Aid in this thread? No one is claiming a recruit will be better than your childhood heroes. Ceteris paribus, I'd rather have a higher ranked recruit than a lower ranked recruit. How is that outrageous to you? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeagleman5 Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Wasn't that David Barton from the 70s also an ORU basketball star who slipped in under the radar?.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eaglefan 21 Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Excited about Bergens but shouldn’t a 4 star recruit have more offers then 2 low mid-majors? Also, no outlet That I’ve seen (rivals or ESPN), but 247 has him listed that high. We’ve had some other highly touted point guards not work out (dedrick Lee, Chris crawford, Kennedy Milton) that I really just want him to get on the court! Anybody remember the last PG that played all four years at ORU? Ken Tutt? I honestly can’t think of one off the top of my head. I’m guessing RJ will stick around and graduate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORUJason Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 My understanding is that Chris Crawford’s issues were related to his attitude. I have no real idea why Kennedy Milton did not work out. Perhaps I have just forgotten the details. He certainly was at the time perceived as an important signing. I am excited about Bergens and not at all surprised that ORU would want to pump up a big signing. If they weren’t putting out positive content about it, I would be surprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORU GRAD Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 54 minutes ago, ORUJason said: My understanding is that Chris Crawford’s issues were related to his attitude. I have no real idea why Kennedy Milton did not work out. Perhaps I have just forgotten the details. He certainly was at the time perceived as an important signing. I am excited about Bergens and not at all surprised that ORU would want to pump up a big signing. If they weren’t putting out positive content about it, I would be surprised. I am excited about all the new recruits and believe we will be better in the fall with even possibly one more addition to come.??? Why should we care about 3 or 4 star when we will have 5 new players which will add to already good returning players? I believe we are doing outstanding recruiting and we really haven't lost many players to transfer this past couple of years. Be thankful for the blessings each day and keep all our staff and players in your prayers. This could be an exciting year. Being from Indiana I grew up watching some great basketball and I hope to see the Mabee rocking once again. Go Eagles! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagleFan Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 2 hours ago, ORU GRAD said: Why should we care about 3 or 4 star when we will have 5 new players which will add to already good returning players? I believe we are doing outstanding recruiting and we really haven't lost many players to transfer this past couple of years. Be thankful for the blessings each day and keep all our staff and players in your prayers. This could be an exciting year. Great points - I agree! This class seems deep and like you said, if we can keep players around for 4 years I think the Golden Eagles have a chance to put some great teams on the court Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeagleman5 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 Hummmm....maybe we should just talk about the NFL Draft.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keenan Henderson Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 6 hours ago, theeagleman5 said: Hummmm....maybe we should just talk about the NFL Draft.... Yeah Sports on tv again tomorrow night! How about those Philadelphia Eagles, do they have a surprise pick up their sleeve... Maybe a trade? The Draft is similar to recruiting in that you never know which pick will be good and which one will bust. Look at the Cowboys: they drafted Prescott in the fourth round and he turned out to be a good/winning quarterback. Just have to hope for the best! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORU GRAD Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 56 minutes ago, Keenan Henderson said: Yeah Sports on tv again tomorrow night! How about those Philadelphia Eagles, do they have a surprise pick up their sleeve... Maybe a trade? The Draft is similar to recruiting in that you never know which pick will be good and which one will bust. Look at the Cowboys: they drafted Prescott in the fourth round and he turned out to be a good/winning quarterback. Just have to hope for the best! Been a Bucs Fan for a long time and we are looking good this pre- draft so far. Brady and Gronk joining the club! I know Dr. Cornelius it is a basketball forum. Sorry but couldn't resist. I was at the game to see Winston throw his 30th pick of the season. Ugh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keenan Henderson Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 Not trying to beat a dead horse but 24/7 sports came out with their final rankings for incoming basketball players. Jamie Bergens fell down from 141 to 230 (three star rating) and Nathan Clover went up a few spots to # 339 (also a three star rating). So in the end, ORU got two three star guys ranked in the top 350 out of all high school players. Have not found much info on Bergens except that he had a strong performance at the European Championships. With all the scoring the 20-21 team has available, Jamie needs to be a good passer/facilator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORU GRAD Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 12 minutes ago, Keenan Henderson said: Not trying to beat a dead horse but 24/7 sports came out with their final rankings for incoming basketball players. Jamie Bergens fell down from 141 to 230 (three star rating) and Nathan Clover went up a few spots to # 339 (also a three star rating). So in the end, ORU got two three star guys ranked in the top 350 out of all high school players. Have not found much info on Bergens except that he had a strong performance at the European Championships. We all the scoring the 20-21 team has available, Jamie needs to be a good passer/facilator. Just enjoy the ride! ORU will be good with or without the rating. Stop and smell the Roses! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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