FLASH POLL - IPFW Announcement 8/6/19

[Old Titan]

Scary note:  believe it or not, cash-strapped Chicago State still "plays" baseball in the WAC...

[Old Titan]

Tom Douple has released a statment re: IPFW, and it sounds like a man who already has a plan about what to do next:

"Purdue Fort Wayne University and athletic administrators have been very upfront about exploring a possible transition to a conference more reflective of their geographic footprint. This move did not catch anyone in our league off guard and Purdue Fort Wayne's transparency throughout the process was appreciated.

"Over the span of 12 years competing in The Summit League, Purdue Fort Wayne forged great relationships that will be missed. We look forward to the Mastodons' final year of competition as a league member during the 2019-20 academic year.

"We will continue the efforts to explore expansion and create new membership options, similar to the recent addition of the University of Missouri Kansas City. Membership changes cause short-term disappointment, but in the long term, our league and its members will continue to prosper and meet the challenges placed in front of them."

Key phrase in my mind:  "create new memberships options, similar to the recent addition of Missouri Kansas City."

Unless I'm reading too much into this, that does not sound like a D-2 school facing years of transition stages to D-1, nor an affiliate school just for baseball.

That sounds like a D-1 school who's ready to rock and roll pretty quickly...

[TrueBlue82]

50 minutes ago, Old Titan said:

Tom Douple has released a statment re: IPFW, and it sounds like a man who already has a plan about what to do next:

"Purdue Fort Wayne University and athletic administrators have been very upfront about exploring a possible transition to a conference more reflective of their geographic footprint. This move did not catch anyone in our league off guard and Purdue Fort Wayne's transparency throughout the process was appreciated.

"Over the span of 12 years competing in The Summit League, Purdue Fort Wayne forged great relationships that will be missed. We look forward to the Mastodons' final year of competition as a league member during the 2019-20 academic year.

"We will continue the efforts to explore expansion and create new membership options, similar to the recent addition of the University of Missouri Kansas City. Membership changes cause short-term disappointment, but in the long term, our league and its members will continue to prosper and meet the challenges placed in front of them."

Key phrase in my mind:  "create new memberships options, similar to the recent addition of Missouri Kansas City."

Unless I'm reading too much into this, that does not sound like a D-2 school facing years of transition stages to D-1, nor an affiliate school just for baseball.

That sounds like a D-1 school who's ready to rock and roll pretty quickly...

Unfortunately, I think you are reading too much into this, OT.  I paraphrase his comments as saying “we were aware of this, and are always looking for new membership options - in fact, remember that we already proactively added UMKC”.   My read is that the Summit understands that it is at the bottom of the D-1 food chain, but will continue to look for membership options anywhere in order to survive.  I think that the UMKC reference was a reminder of actions already taken, not a template for additions that we can expect in the future.  But, I hope that I am wrong.  

[Dr. Cornelius]

I agree with @TrueBlue82. You can't go wrong betting against Douple. I think he's simply hinting at adding Augustana... which solves nothing.

The only counter to this would be that The Summit is actually NOT on the bottom rung of D1 currently; that distinction belongs to the WAC. Every WAC member is currently looking for a way out. If Douple and the the Summit Presidents could use what little leverage they may have to pick up another WAC school (hopefully Grand Canyon) that would be great.

Quote

What’s Up with the WAC? The Uncertain Future of a Chaotic Conference

Today, the conference is home to nine teams. Two of those, UMKC and CSU Bakersfield, are set to leave the conference in 2020, although Dixie State is also set to join that same year. That brings the 2020 total number of teams down to eight. With Chicago State being a geographic outlier and in danger of major budget cuts, that leaves the WAC in a precarious situation.

Recently, the WAC has tried to get Division II members to move up, with some success. Cal Baptist and Dixie State are the two most promising examples. But several schools have openly turned the WAC down, while others have not openly accepted or denied.

 

[UNDfan]

The WAC, which is down to five full members after 2020,  is in your future.  The WAC has two moveup members, Cal Baptist and Dixie St, which would not count as full DI members for years.  Chicago St has a conference audit currently as they lost their AD and many other athletic staff.  It is down to 1500 students and is losing money everywhere.  Chicago State will not have its WAC contract renewed, as it was not a normal  member.  The WAC will just not renew their contract.  But instead, the WAC will get Sam Houston St, McNeese St, Lamar, Incarnate Word to jjoin.  The Montanas, Idaho and other western  schools will join the Summit if ORU and UMKC are gone.

The loss of PFW baseball loses the Summit’s mbb Dance bid if it isn’t addressed.  IPFW gives the Horizon seven baseball teams and five for Summit.  The Summit needs six within two years for a dance bid and Northern Colorado is not interested.  The Summit needs to sponsor football instead and forget baseball.  ORU admin knows they need to move on to better pasture for baseball.

[ORU82]

Interesting, both Grand Canyon and New Mexico State are WAC members.  Both may be lured away to the Summit.  I think the Summit is still a step up from the WAC, but who knows.  I also like and agree with OT's take on Douple's message.  Augustana will not be ready next year.  However the League allowed UMKC to come back for next year.  A true D-I school ready to hit the ground running.

[Hammersmith]

 

On 8/5/2019 at 5:49 PM, ORUTerry said:

I’m only dreaming. The Dakota schools have voted them down previously. Probably why Ft. Wayne left

Do you know this for certain? I have never heard anything from NDSU or SDSU rejecting GCU. I have heard that Denver is adamantly against them for academic reasons, and that the WAC inviting them was the final straw for Denver, causing them to jump ship to the Summit.

[Old Titan]

15 hours ago, UNDfan said:

The WAC, which is down to five full members after 2020,  is in your future.  The WAC has two moveup members, Cal Baptist and Dixie St, which would not count as full DI members for years.  Chicago St has a conference audit currently as they lost their AD and many other athletic staff.  It is down to 1500 students and is losing money everywhere.  Chicago State will not have its WAC contract renewed, as it was not a normal  member.  The WAC will just not renew their contract.  But instead, the WAC will get Sam Houston St, McNeese St, Lamar, Incarnate Word to jjoin.  The Montanas, Idaho and other western  schools will join the Summit if ORU and UMKC are gone.

The loss of PFW baseball loses the Summit’s mbb Dance bid if it isn’t addressed.  IPFW gives the Horizon seven baseball teams and five for Summit.  The Summit needs six within two years for a dance bid and Northern Colorado is not interested.  The Summit needs to sponsor football instead and forget baseball.  ORU admin knows they need to move on to better pasture for baseball.

The following notions from the above post are so laughable, they hardly bear notice; but, awww - what the heck:

• The thought that ANY D-1 school who is already a member of another D-1 conference would jump voluntarily into the WAC dumpster-fire; particularly football-playing schools in the Southland, who would have to play games in the Mountain and Pacific Time Zones instead of Texas and Louisiana.
• The thought that the Summit League and UMKC would have just a few weeks ago agreed to the trouble and expense of the Roos joining the conference, if neither was committed for the long haul in the first place.
• The thought that "the Montanas, Idaho and other Western schools" are somehow waiting around just to see if ORU and UMKC leave the Summit League before they would join.
• The thought that somehow "the loss of PFW baseball loses the Summit's mbb Dance bid".  (This isn't just a bad take; it's bad grammar:  "the loss...loses"??  LOL)
• The thought that the Summit League is going to drop baseball and get into the football business.  Wonder how league-darlings SDSU, NDSU and Omaha would feel about being forced to find new homes for their baseball programs?
• The thought that ORU would leave the Summit League just to accommodate Golden Eagle baseball, at the expense of every other men's and women's program on campus.

Did I miss anything?  (rhetorical question; I pretty much covered the entire post, which is, not coincidentally, entirely wrong).

[Dr. Cornelius]

13 hours ago, Hammersmith said:

 

Do you know this for certain? I have never heard anything from NDSU or SDSU rejecting GCU. I have heard that Denver is adamantly against them for academic reasons, and that the WAC inviting them was the final straw for Denver, causing them to jump ship to the Summit.

The Brakedown on Bison 1660 AM included this yesterday when covering Ft. Wayne leaving The Summit (August 6th show @ 14:47)

Quote

...Grand Canyon, a school that David Herbster at USD is on the record saying the league had discussions with, vetted, and ultimately declined to invite to the conference...

 

 

[ORUTerry]

I have heard that all the Dakota schools plus another (Denver) voted down Grand Canyon. ORU was the leading proponent of adding them to the conference 

 

[UNDfan]

15 hours ago, Old Titan said:

The following notions from the above post are so laughable, they hardly bear notice; but, awww - what the heck:

• The thought that ANY D-1 school who is already a member of another D-1 conference would jump voluntarily into the WAC dumpster-fire; particularly football-playing schools in the Southland, who would have to play games in the Mountain and Pacific Time Zones instead of Texas and Louisiana.
• The thought that the Summit League and UMKC would have just a few weeks ago agreed to the trouble and expense of the Roos joining the conference, if neither was committed for the long haul in the first place.
• The thought that "the Montanas, Idaho and other Western schools" are somehow waiting around just to see if ORU and UMKC leave the Summit League before they would join.
• The thought that somehow "the loss of PFW baseball loses the Summit's mbb Dance bid".  (This isn't just a bad take; it's bad grammar:  "the loss...loses"??  LOL)
• The thought that the Summit League is going to drop baseball and get into the football business.  Wonder how league-darlings SDSU, NDSU and Omaha would feel about being forced to find new homes for their baseball programs?
• The thought that ORU would leave the Summit League just to accommodate Golden Eagle baseball, at the expense of every other men's and women's program on campus.

Did I miss anything?  (rhetorical question; I pretty much covered the entire post, which is, not coincidentally, entirely wrong).

You need to reread the NCAA rules.  The Summit is required to offer three male team sports with at least six members in order to maintain its conference standing with the NCAA.  It fails that now for both baseball and men’s soccer, as Eastern Illinois is an affiliate there.   There is a two year grace period to get back to six.  The Summit fell to five baseball and men’s soccer teams when you left previously, and then got ORU back as six baseball and men’s soccer teams are critical for the autobid and conference money

http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/D119.pdf

Look under the requirements for multi sport conferences.  A DII move up does not satisfy that rule for five years as they are not full DI members and do not count  until then.

Football conferences only need to offer basketball, not another sport, so the Dakotas want more football conference members.  The Dakota plan to add football sponsorship, so it eliminates the need for baseball and men’s soccer.  NDSU , SDSU, and Omaha will go to WAC baseball if the MVC or the Horizon don’t take them.  WIU is in danger of dropping to DII because their enrollment has dropped so much.  UND dropped baseball, was a WAC affiliate for it,  so this has been planned for some time.

And to think you were the NCAA rules guru!  What a joke.

The WAC would open their arms to ORU and UMKC instantly and would satisfy all the NCAA requirements.

[Old Titan]

Ya know, I should have realized what an obviously pointless exercise this was going to be. 

When will I ever learn? LOL

Listen, I can waste no more time in a bizarro alternate universe where a basketball-centric conference is sitting idly in their brand-new multi-million dollar offices without any plan at all for replacing their last Eastern Time Zone school in a move that has been rumored for years, and in a nuclear-option response, would choose to solve a simple minor-sport numbers shortcoming by introducing football to the mix.

I prefer to delve in reality, and will just wait for the inevitable announcement from the league office re: who the next west-of-the-Mississippi-basketball-and-baseball-playing addition to the conference will be.

[UNDfan]

6 hours ago, Old Titan said:

Ya know, I should have realized what an obviously pointless exercise this was going to be. 

When will I ever learn? LOL

Listen, I can waste no more time in a bizarro alternate universe where a basketball-centric conference is sitting idly in their brand-new multi-million dollar offices without any plan at all for replacing their last Eastern Time Zone school in a move that has been rumored for years, and in a nuclear-option response, would choose to solve a simple minor-sport numbers shortcoming by introducing football to the mix.

I prefer to delve in reality, and will just wait for the inevitable announcement from the league office re: who the next west-of-the-Mississippi-basketball-and-baseball-playing addition to the conference will be.

So suddenly, your constant ignorant lambasting of my postings is almost ending and you will just sweep the whole situation under the rug.

Never came here to harass but just inform.  You just prefer to stay uninformed and ignorant.

ORU athletic will end up in a better place as they moved to the Summit free to save it for longer and then get their next free reward, a new conference.

[Old Titan]

[mojoliet]

NMSU & GCU love having the conference tournament in Vegas and only each other to compete with for an NCAA bid. As long as neither receives a “goal”-conference invite (GCU:WCC, NMSU:MWC) they’ll ride the WAC autobid gravy train as long as possible. They have their pawns (SU, CBU, Dixie, UVU, UTRGV, CSU). 

Summit may call up a private but it might not be Augustana as many expect. 

Watch for St Thomas. Tommies need an NCAA waiver to jump from D3 but may get it since they were booted from their league for being too good. St Thomas checks the boxes for academics, enrollment, endowment, and new market within the footprint. 

[TrueBlue82]

Ironically, the University of St. Thomas main campus in St. Paul is split in half by a major roadway, aptly named Summit Avenue.  You can't make this stuff up!