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ORUalum

The Sioux Falls Factor

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ORUalum

Crunched the numbers on the Dakota schools vs the non-Dakota schools in the Summit League Tournament since it's move to Sioux Falls SD.:

  • 2009:  4-1  (NDSU)
  • 2010:  0-2  (OAK)
  • 2011:  1-2  (OAK)
  • 2012:  3-1  (SDSU)
  • 2013   4-1  (SDSU)
  • 2014:  3-2  (NDSU)
  • 2015:  4-0  (NDSU)
  • 2016:  4-1  (SDSU)
  • 2017:  3-1  (SDSU)
  • 2018:  3-0   TBD      (1 Dakota vs non game left --- DEN/SD)
  • 2018:  4-0  (SDSU)

That's a combined record of 29-11 for the Dakota schools.  Throw out the first three years when you they were still getting their feet wet in D1 and the number is even more profound.......24-6   (or how about just the last 4 years if SD beats DEN.......15-2)

The only non-Dakota school to win a championship up there were the dominant Oakland teams of Benson-Hamilton-Bader.

I get the league will never move it because of the money they are collecting.  However, is this good for the health of the league?  Only 3 schools can tell recruits that they get the opportunity to punch their NCAA ticket in their own back yard every season.

I'm not saying the Dakota schools have not had good players or coaches, but there is a compounding effect of having a home court advantage in SF every time they play a non-Dakota school in the tournament.

There is a reason the league howled after ORU went to the dance 3 out of 4 years when the tournament was played in Tulsa.

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ORUTerry

Ironic that the best (first) team did not win the tournament. 

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West-River_Jack

Do you have any idea of the number of those wins by the Dakota schools occurred when they were the higher seed vs. When they were the lower seed?  In other words, how many wins that perhaps should have been losses?

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ORUalum

I'm not going to spend the time.  You are more than welcome.  That really was not my point.  I'm sure the majority of those games were with the Dakota schools as the higher seeds.

I know ORU as a 2 seed lost to 7 seeded  SDSU one year that was a SDSU home game.  Another game a few years ago ORU was up 15 or 16 in the second half as the 7 seed against 2 seeded SDSU when they came roaring back with the help of their fans.  These games are not neutral court clashes when the non-Dakota schools face the Dakota schools.  Not crying over spilled milk or pounding the desk that it must be moved, just stating a fact.  And with the money situation I get why the league does it.

My second point was that those schools can leverage that fact in recruiting (especially SDSU and SD), thus compounding the advantage.  You think it did not help ORU for 4 years when they could tell recruits that the league tournament was going to be in Tulsa in front of an ORU crowd?

Is this healthy for the league not rotating the tournament every 2 years to a location not in the Dakotas --- like Omaha?  Do you think it contributed to teams leaving?

It seems the league presidents will take the money for now.

 

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ManiacAlum

I will say that at least this time SDSU is the top seed. Two years ago, after that double-digit comeback win over 7th seed ORU, they pulled off the same thing against #6 Denver before beating #5 NDSU in the title game. That's three games without facing a seed higher than 5th, which of course, was another Dakota. They won it again last year as the 4th seed.

But there really hasn't be a legit non-Dakota contender in the league since those Oakland teams. 

This tournament is where the league's bread is buttered and the only non-Dakota schools still here have no where else to go. 

Or they left and came crawling back.

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Dr. Cornelius

It’s a big advantage but not insurmountable.

Have to continue to improve recruiting - especially because other Summit teams are landing better players.

  • Upvote 2

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ORUalum

--If Daum returns they may go undefeated in the league next year.

--11K reasons why the Summit League Tournament will not be moving anytime soon.

--Kudos to the ESPN announcer for stating the obvious there in the final minute of the game.

 

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91jack

I think this topic will come up again next year.

SDSU returns 4 of 5 starters if Daum coms back.  They did redshirt 4 players this year and they are bringing in 3 more recruits next season.  TJ was the head recruiter at Iowa State and Washington so I would think they should be able to replace the 2 players that will leave the them played in the championship game from those 7 players.

USD will lose 2 bench players that played a total of 29 minutes in the championship game so they should be stronger next season, too.

The teams that lost to the South Dakota teams in the semi finals will be down some next season.

NDSU had 4 players score all but 7 points in the semifinal loss.  Of those 4 players, Miller and Jacobson were seniors.  They will have Ward and Hunter back but after that they don't have much.  Unless they have massive improvement, they will lose early next year.

Denver does bring back several players that played some but they do lose Amigo and Pemberton.  They might be about as good as they were this year next year but I think they will drop off some.  

-----

Others-

ORU-  I think you will have a better team next year.  You do lose Owens and Ruder but have the rest of your team back and it will also be another year under your new coach.

IPFW does have Konchar coming back but they were mainly a two man team this year.  Losing Scott will hurt them a lot.

Omaha will only lose Norl for starters but I don't think they will be able to close enough of a gap on the South Dakota teams.  

Western Illinois loses Antrum  but they should be better next year, too.  I just don't think it will be enough to close the gap for the either.

North Dakota will be about the middle of the pack in my opinion.

 

After next year, both SDSU and USD will lose several star players but that is a long ways down the road to know who will be around by then.

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ORUIllini
18 hours ago, ORUalum said:

--If Daum returns they may go undefeated in the league next year.

--11K reasons why the Summit League Tournament will not be moving anytime soon.

--Kudos to the ESPN announcer for stating the obvious there in the final minute of the game.

 

I'm wondering if there is any truth to these rumors of Daum going to Wisconsin?

I know he has the connection with assistant coach at Wisconsin, and I gotta think that Daum would be inticed to play in the Big 10 and make it to the tourney and win games...plus, wouldn't a year in a Power 5 conference help his NBA stock?

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ORUalum
1 hour ago, ORUIllini said:

I'm wondering if there is any truth to these rumors of Daum going to Wisconsin?

I know he has the connection with assistant coach at Wisconsin, and I gotta think that Daum would be inticed to play in the Big 10 and make it to the tourney and win games...plus, wouldn't a year in a Power 5 conference help his NBA stock?

I bet he returns to SDSU.  He's comfortable there, will get all the shots he wants, and can cement his legacy.

One of the Dakota posters can correct me if I'm off, but I think he would have been better served coming out last year.  In the NBA's eyes he got a year older and put 30+ more games on film for them to pick apart. 

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Dr. Cornelius

I hope Daum moves on... but if I was him I probably wouldn’t.

Would Wisconsin really be that much of a step up? Sure, it’s a lot more exposure but the Badgers will be down for a while and might not make the tournament next year either.

But if a better offer comes along... (KU?)

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ORUIllini
2 hours ago, Dr. Cornelius said:

I hope Daum moves on... but if I was him I probably wouldn’t.

Would Wisconsin really be that much of a step up? Sure, it’s a lot more exposure but the Badgers will be down for a while and might not make the tournament next year either.

But if a better offer comes along... (KU?)

Oh the Badgers will be a top 25 team next year....yes this year was a disappointment, but they were without their point guard D’Mitrik Trice and freshman star Kobe King...both hurt early on....with those two back plus a transfer from UWGB, I think Daum and Ethan Happ would be a tough duo... they will be in the tourney next year

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ManiacAlum

See, I would have thought Daum playing with Happ might effect both of their draft prospects. Wisconsin may try to make Happ a better shooter, or at least a threat outside of the paint, the way they tried with Nigel Hayes. I'm sure they wouldn't mind having Daum though.

SDSU is definitely the class of the league. And the top 2-seeds have won 21 of the last 24 tournament titles. ORU just needs to get better, like right now.

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Dr. Cornelius

Maybe Wisconsin will make the tournament next season (sub .500 P5 teams seem to accomplishing that frequently ) but I highly doubt they are a top team. Bo Ryan was able to develop a lot of recruits outside of the top 150 into elite players - not sure about Gard.

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