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Would you support ORU moving to the MVC?


mvfcfan

Would you support Oral Roberts moving to the Missouri Valley Conference?  

19 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you support ORU moving to the MVC?

    • Yes
      17
    • No
      2


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The Green family is Hobby Lobby and is a huge benefactor for ORU.  In addition thereto membership in the Golden Eagle Club (athletic boosters) has went from around 270 a couple years ago to now over 800+.  Not bad for a private university.  We are completing a $14,000,000 track stadium debt free which will host The Summit Outdoor T/F Championship next May.  In the last several years we have completed a financial campaign that has raised approximately $55,000,000 in private contributions.  And yes, we have been debt free since 2009, and have experienced continual enrollment growth for at least the last five years.

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19 hours ago, ORU82 said:

The Green family is Hobby Lobby and is a huge benefactor for ORU.  In addition thereto membership in the Golden Eagle Club (athletic boosters) has went from around 270 a couple years ago to now over 800+.  Not bad for a private university.  We are completing a $14,000,000 track stadium debt free which will host The Summit Outdoor T/F Championship next May.  In the last several years we have completed a financial campaign that has raised approximately $55,000,000 in private contributions.  And yes, we have been debt free since 2009, and have experienced continual enrollment growth for at least the last five years.

In stark contrast, men's basketball season ticket sales for ORU are at a low-water mark that rivals the depths of the NAIA days of the early '90's.

Plunging attendance for college basketball is a nationwide crisis for most mid-to-low major men's programs.  With ORU coming off so many lackluster seasons, coupled with a controversial and unpopular head coaching change, solving the problem becomes even more daunting.

Can't help but think that a conference home schedule including the likes of Missouri State, Southern Illinois, Bradley, and Northern Iowa would go a long way toward solving that problem with the local ticket-buying public and their fond memories of TU's glory days in The Valley.

But, I'm afraid the solutions to the attendance problems at ORU lie somewhere else, because I see absolutely no evidence that The Valley will be extending any membership invitations to ORU in the foreseable future.

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24 minutes ago, Old Titan said:

But, I'm afraid the solutions to the attendance problems at ORU lie somewhere else, because I see absolutely no evidence that The Valley will be extending any membership invitations to ORU in the foreseable future.

Winning solves a lot of problems.

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Winning does solve a lot of problems....yeah, we may not pack 'em in like in the glory days of ORU basketball but students and the ORU loyalists will come out if the Golden Eagles field a 20 win team with a shot at a conference title and a post season bid.....not sure we would ever draw more than 5,000 or so but it sure would be nice to see the gold seats filled....the MVC would also  be really sweet but it probably is not within reach for ORU.....at least until we can get back to a team like we had in the last decade under Coach Sutton.....27-6.....or something like that....and ORU is a long way from a team that can win 20+ games right now....it also wouldn't hurt to have another Fuqua as a local star on the court....again, probably too much to ask....but OR used to have that saying .....EXPECT A MIRACLE!....and something about expecting no little things to happen.....hey, we have a new coaching staff and some new blood infused here.....it may take a season or two to plant the seeds of victory but it can happen.....TheEagleman is going to remain optimistic for the time being.....maybe we should bring back the FLAME???...GO BLUE!!!...:eagles:

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1 hour ago, Dr. Cornelius said:

(Sustained) Winning solves a lot of problems.

Fixed ^^^^

One or two 20-win seasons isn't going to do the trick in terms of season ticket sales, especially if success results in Paul Mills leaving for another gig.

"Winning" in the short term may help with walk-up ticket sales, but SEASON ticket sales are the result of people who are committed to the program for the long run, and that's a whole 'nuther kettle of fish.

It's one of the "unintended consequences" of the Scott Sutton firing:  trying to determine if wins alone are enough to bring back fans who have slipped away over the years, or if they have been lost for good due to reasons beyond wins and losses (see "Hayes, Ken circa 1983" for exactly what I'm talking about).

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Yep. Word on the street is that at least one prominent member of this message board may not renew his season tickets this year...

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41 minutes ago, Old Titan said:

One or two 20-win seasons isn't going to do the trick in terms of season ticket sales, especially if success results in Paul Mills leaving for another gig.

The current situation isn't just due to one or two bad seasons... So I agree that it can't be fixed quickly either.

 

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2 hours ago, oruvoice said:

Yep. Word on the street is that at least one prominent member of this message board may not renew his season tickets this year...

Would be interested to hear his reasoning (economics, win-loss record, coaching change, etc. )

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Not sure who is being referenced about not renewing season tickets but I know many who donate who also have season tickets who are absolutely thrilled with the move and thought it was long over due.

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I know I'm a little late to the party but here goes.

The obvious thing that has changed since the last go round with the MVC is that ORU isn't sitting with an entrenched Coach overseeing a middling to bad team. We shouldn't underestimate the possible impact of this as it pertains to the MVC considering ORU for expansion. The firing of Coach Sutton should make ORU more attractive to the MVC as it shows ORU is at least trying to win. Whether winning actually happens remains to be seen. However, a year or two back, people were wondering if the ORU administration even cared about winning. Now, we see how the administration made a tremendously difficult decision, and paid a significant sum of money, to fire a popular coach. All in an attempt to reinvigorate a stagnating program. This should send a clear message to the MVC that ORU wants to win.

Obviously, it's doubtful that the MVC will consider ORU even now. But I've got to think we are in a better position than last time around.

Just my two cents...

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4 hours ago, Idig32 said:

I know I'm a little late to the party but here goes.

The obvious thing that has changed since the last go round with the MVC is that ORU isn't sitting with an entrenched Coach overseeing a middling to bad team. We shouldn't underestimate the possible impact of this as it pertains to the MVC considering ORU for expansion. The firing of Coach Sutton should make ORU more attractive to the MVC as it shows ORU is at least trying to win. Whether winning actually happens remains to be seen. However, a year or two back, people were wondering if the ORU administration even cared about winning. Now, we see how the administration made a tremendously difficult decision, and paid a significant sum of money, to fire a popular coach. All in an attempt to reinvigorate a stagnating program. This should send a clear message to the MVC that ORU wants to win.

Obviously, it's doubtful that the MVC will consider ORU even now. But I've got to think we are in a better position than last time around.

Just my two cents...

I felt Billy Wilson made it very clear in his interviews that firing Scott was not based on the W-L column or the trajectory of the program. But hopefully it's PERCEIVED as a rededication to athletics by those less familiar with us. 

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Positives for Oral Roberts (from an outsider):

 

Basketball:

1) Had 14 consecutive winning seasons from 2003-2015.

2) Made the NCAA tournament 3 times during that stretch (and should have made it in 2012).

3) Spends comparatively to other MVC schools and actually plays in a real basketball arena.

 

Baseball:

1) Has made the NCAA tournament 18 times since 1998. (WOW!!!)

2) Also has 18 conference championships and 18 tournament championships in that time frame.

3) Wichita State was historically a good baseball program. We need someone to replace them. Oral Roberts has clearly dominated in baseball.

 

Others:

1) Location: 3 hour drive from Missouri State who needs a travel partner.

2) Private school: Currently the Public-private split is 5-5. Adding Murray State would make it 6-5 in favor of publics. Adding ORU keeps it even at 6-6.

3) Market: Tulsa's metro area is just under 1 million.

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CONS for the decision makers in the MVC

  • ORU's charismatic/pentecostal distinctive
  • ORU's controversial founder
  • lastly and probably not as much of a factor as the previous 2 -- the decline of athletics the last 4-6 yrs

the MVC presidents will never extend an offer to ORU

ORU needs to improve overall in athletics and start competing for championships in the Summit league.  the MVC is never going to happen.

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The last 2 posts pretty much wrap it all up in a nutshell.....ORU isn't going anywhere.....at least not to the MVC.....ORUALUM's comments are sad but true.....we need to turn things around in the Summit in basketball before we can even think about something else.....:unsure:

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I'm new to following ORU so I don't know the history.  But I can tell you my perspective is there is a ton of potential and dormant passion in the basketball program.  Even with down attendance numbers ORU is tops in the Summit and comparable to most MVC schools.  In fact, when conference realignment is mentioned on here my first thought is always why not the MVC?  It seems like a perfect fit.  Conference alignment decisions are long term decisions.  Its not based on the current state of the programs, its based on the commitment level.  Hiring a new coach who has some pretty close ties to the best of the best in college basketball will help show that commitment. 

BTW, the MVC has a reputation for being a very strong league but it really hasn't been lately.  Now they lose Wichita State and the league is reeling.  Illinois State lost only a handful of games and ran away with the regular season title and still missed out on an at large bid.  That had to be pretty stunning.   

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I know it's easy to get down on yourselves when things aren't going as good as you would like them to. But let's compare.

Loyola Chicago had 4 winning seasons this century before joining the MVC. Two years before they joined the MVC they went 1-17 in the Horizon League. They had exactly zero tournament appearances (of any kind) this century before joining the Valley. In fact they haven't been to the NCAA's since 1985.

The MVC and ORU were talking a few years back and that was before Wichita State and Creighton both left. Now that they are both gone and they want Murray State, the situation is a lot more favorable to ORU than it once was. Especially when they are saying that they can't add Murray State because it would leave Missouri State without a travel partner, but that they are going to put together a search committee to see if the MVC should go to 12.

But here's the article on where the MVC might go to 12. http://www.the-standard.org/sports/missouri-valley-to-add-valparaiso-might-add-more/article_1ee26bd4-34ec-11e7-9fad-93a693fe64c3.html There was one a while back that had the radio interview, but I unfortunately can't find it. It says in the article though that they will be searching for the next 9 months to make sure they can get the best two members possible and that they believe there are two teams out there that fit in with the MVC. (As mentioned before I strongly believe that they are only searching for one team. I think Murray State has a foot in the door already.) Since the search committee will be searching until February, I have to assume that an announcement will be made sometime in March to give the two teams and affected conferences plenty of time in advance to figure out their next moves.

I just have to think that Oral Roberts is going to be considered in this process, particularly when schools like UIC, Milwaukee, Loyola, and Omaha have been in the past. And if Missouri State having a travel partner is a big issue and their president is leading the search, then I have to think that ORU is a definite contender.

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12 minutes ago, mvfcfan said:

I know it's easy to get down on yourselves when things aren't going as good as you would like them to. But let's compare.

Loyola Chicago had 4 winning seasons this century before joining the MVC. Two years before they joined the MVC they went 1-17 in the Horizon League. They had exactly zero tournament appearances (of any kind) this century before joining the Valley. In fact they haven't been to the NCAA's since 1985.

The MVC and ORU were talking a few years back and that was before Wichita State and Creighton both left. Now that they are both gone and they want Murray State, the situation is a lot more favorable to ORU than it once was. Especially when they are saying that they can't add Murray State because it would leave Missouri State without a travel partner, but that they are going to put together a search committee to see if the MVC should go to 12.

But here's the article on where the MVC might go to 12. http://www.the-standard.org/sports/missouri-valley-to-add-valparaiso-might-add-more/article_1ee26bd4-34ec-11e7-9fad-93a693fe64c3.html There was one a while back that had the radio interview, but I unfortunately can't find it. It says in the article though that they will be searching for the next 9 months to make sure they can get the best two members possible and that they believe there are two teams out there that fit in with the MVC. (As mentioned before I strongly believe that they are only searching for one team. I think Murray State has a foot in the door already.) Since the search committee will be searching until February, I have to assume that an announcement will be made sometime in March to give the two teams and affected conferences plenty of time in advance to figure out their next moves.

I just have to think that Oral Roberts is going to be considered in this process, particularly when schools like UIC, Milwaukee, Loyola, and Omaha have been in the past. And if Missouri State having a travel partner is a big issue and their president is leading the search, then I have to think that ORU is a definite contender.

Yeah its easy to get wrapped up in your own misery.  I look at the situation and say what has Valpo, Murray State and Loyola done that puts them ahead of ORU as a candidate?  What has Omaha done?  They've only had D1 basketball for 4 or 5 years.  ORU makes a lot of sense.  It's basketball and baseball focused.  Strong academics.  Relative geographic fit despite not technically being in the Missouri Valley.

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Okay, here is a breakdown of MBB attendance/budgets for the current MVC with Murray State, Milwaukee, Omaha, ORU and Northern Kentucky thrown in.  The attendance stats are for 2016 per the NCAA.  The budget info comes from the US Department of Education for the 2015-16 year.  As for attendance it would go as follows:  1. Bradley (5,953), 2. U.N.I. (5,378), 3. S.I.U. (5,277), 4. Illinois State (5,199), 5. Evansville (5,147), 6. Missouri State (4,140), 7. Indiana State (3,672), 8. Valpo (3,572),  9. ORU (3,317), 10. Murray State (3,266),  11. Drake (3,087), 12. Milwaukee (2,667), 13. Northern Kentucky (2,296), 14. Omaha (2,265), 15. Loyola-Chicago (1,831).

As for budget it would go as follows:  1. Bradley ($3,128,419), 2. U.N.I. (($2,899,699), 3. Evansville ($2,899,667), 4. Milwaukee (2,877,237), 5. Loyola-Chicago ($2,745,553), 6. ORU ($2,741,483) 7. Valpo ($2,666,213), 8.Drake ($2,472,212), 9. Illinois State ($2,452,961), 10. Missouri State ($2,279,917), 11. S.I.U. ($2,241,413), 12. Murray State ($2,218,712), 13. Indiana State ($1,832,975), 14. Northern Kentucky ($1,623,294), 15. Omaha ($1,288,481).

In either of the categories we fit in well.  I also like what Mo State's President said about the MVC being a "basketball conference".  We are a "basketball school" and that conference would be a perfect fit for us.

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