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Would you support ORU moving to the MVC?


mvfcfan

Would you support Oral Roberts moving to the Missouri Valley Conference?  

19 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you support ORU moving to the MVC?

    • Yes
      17
    • No
      2


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I have been on record for years as saying The Valley presidents would never extend an invitation to ORU, based in no small part due to Creighton's president saying something to the effect of "over his dead body" (he didn't like evangelicals).

Now, Creighton is gone to the Big East, so maybe that's not the issue it once was, but I still think it's highly unlikely ORU is on The Valley's radar, for the variety of reasons mentioned.

But, what do I know:  I'm also the one who swore up and down Mike Carter would retire before he would ever agree to fire Scott Sutton, and we all saw how accurate that turned out to be... :doh:

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I would absolutely love an invite to the MVC.  Back when Gene Stephenson was at Wichita State (former legendary baseball coach) he spoke positively about ORU and actually lobbied (to a degree in media interviews) for ORU to be considered for the MVC.  The stability of ORU (both financial and otherwise) over the last 10 years could definitely improve our chance to be considered.

MVCFan makes a lot of good points and we have had (apparently) a good working relationship with Missouri State over the last several years.  Tulsa is a significant market, and with its past history with the MVC, it seems like a good fit.  I wonder how big of an issue it would be that ORU does not have softball.

The new tennis/track and field complex combined with the long term success of the baseball program and the clear commitment to basketball demonstrated by paying the buyout to Scott Sutton and hiring coach Mills should demonstrate ORUs commitment to athletic success.  The increase of nearly 1000 students in annual enrollment (over the last 10 years) also demonstrates long term stability for the university.  I wonder if Mike Carter has been given the green light to pursue the MVC bid at this point.

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1 hour ago, ORU82 said:

The attendance stats are for 2016 per the NCAA.    As for attendance it would go as follows:  9. ORU (3,317)

I have read that ORU is tops in the Summit League in attendance and I see that 3317/game is the number that you have listed.  

I was curious as to when ORU played SDSU as to what the attendance was in both Tulsa and Bookings so I looked at the box score at the SDSU site.  They say there were 3,917 fans in Brookings and 2,812 fans in Tulsa.  

That got me looking at some of the other ORU games.  Southeastern Okla (2068) exhibit., Rogers State (2653), Tulsa (4230), John Brown (2220), Little Rock (2850), Richmond (2735), SDSU (2812), IUPUI (2595), USD (2401), Omaha (3048), IPFW (2534), Denver (2464), Western Illinois (3040) and NDSU (???).  

I didn't see an attendance for the NDSU game.  Tulsa had 4,230 fans and the rest had attendances that were below that average.  

I'm not saying that any other school does much better at recording attendance.  Do you count tickets sold or butts in the seats?  Do you count players, coaches, cheerleaders and ushers?  I'm sure there is a way it should be done but I don't know what it is.  I'm not trying to start anything but I was just curious so I thought I would point this out.

1 hour ago, ORU82 said:

 

 

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1 hour ago, fensket33% said:

I'm not saying that any other school does much better at recording attendance.  Do you count tickets sold or butts in the seats?  Do you count players, coaches, cheerleaders and ushers?  I'm sure there is a way it should be done but I don't know what it is.  I'm not trying to start anything but I was just curious so I thought I would point this out.

 

I think we've been thru this a thousand times -- Season tickets sold + single game tickets sold for that game + student/faculty passes used for that game

it is not a butts in seats count.......

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25 minutes ago, ORUalum said:

I think we've been thru this a thousand times -- Season tickets sold + single game tickets sold for that game + student/faculty passes used for that game

it is not a butts in seats count.......

Thanks!  I saw that and was curious.

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Oruparentlurker asked what valpo has done?  

remember this is a basketball driven Conference....

valpo dominated the summit for years.  The ten years between 95 and 05 the crusaders won it 8 times.  Valpo outgrew the Dii promotion league and joined the HL.  At that time the HL on several occasions had at large bids.  Valpo spent 10 years in the HL and won the league 5 times. 

Again mvc is basketball driven and second is academics.  I don't know where oru ranks amongst the us news but that the most common system used. Valpo ranks 4 for liberal arts schools in the Midwest.  Oru is a liberal arts university as well.  Valpo joins drake Evansville and Bradley all private liberal arts schools acedmiy ranked in the top 5 of the Midwest.  I don't have the time or I would look up oru.  Valpo basketball was one of 30 schools to have a perfect apr thus earning NCAA money for the conference.  

Oru facilities are light years ahead of valpo.  But that's not what it's about.  Just thought I would answer the question "what has valpo done"

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1 hour ago, okiesooner said:

Oruparentlurker asked what valpo has done?  

remember this is a basketball driven Conference....

valpo dominated the summit for years.  The ten years between 95 and 05 the crusaders won it 8 times.  Valpo outgrew the Dii promotion league and joined the HL.  At that time the HL on several occasions had at large bids.  Valpo spent 10 years in the HL and won the league 5 times. 

Again mvc is basketball driven and second is academics.  I don't know where oru ranks amongst the us news but that the most common system used. Valpo ranks 4 for liberal arts schools in the Midwest.  Oru is a liberal arts university as well.  Valpo joins drake Evansville and Bradley all private liberal arts schools acedmiy ranked in the top 5 of the Midwest.  I don't have the time or I would look up oru.  Valpo basketball was one of 30 schools to have a perfect apr thus earning NCAA money for the conference.  

Oru facilities are light years ahead of valpo.  But that's not what it's about.  Just thought I would answer the question "what has valpo done"

Yeah I figured Valpo's distinguished basketball history has to count for something.  I think every school has strengths that can be highlighted.  I could easily say ORU outclasses Valpo in baseball and market size.  Its not like Valpo has been a Gonzaga like mid-major juggernaut.  In fact, looking at the MVC as a whole... the only program I would consider a perennial winner is Northern Iowa.  They lost Creigton, Butler and now Wichita.  Indiana State and Evansville have great history but haven't been terribly successful recently. 

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Agreed every school has strenghs and can be highlighted.  I also agree oru outclasses valpo in baseball and probably every other sport not named basketball or softball.  Oru also has better facilities as stated. 

But I will repeat myself, it's about basketball and academics. 

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I think we've been thru this a thousand times -- Season tickets sold + single game tickets sold for that game + student/faculty passes used for that game

it is not a butts in seats count.......

Hey, ORUBlue82:  I seem to recall utilizing a somewhat less scientific method of calculating attendance when completing the box scores after each game, don't you?? LOL

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I believe our approach was every bit as (or more) accurate than the "new math" used today! :smile-open-mouth:

Although I readily admit that some of the attendance counts for baseball games at JLJ included numerous junebugs!

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  • 2 weeks later...

I've been doing some thinking on this and why exactly did Oral Roberts leave the Southland to go back to the Summit League? The Southland makes more sense and even if ORU can't get in the MVC (like I'm hoping) I think you guys could still go back there. If/when Ft Wayne leaves to go to the Horizon League the Summit League will be down to 5 baseball schools, and I'm pretty sure you need 6 for an auto bid. The only school out there with baseball that would probably join the league is Chicago State. North Dakota doesn't have baseball and  UMKC, if they were to come back, doesn't either.

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10 hours ago, mvfcfan said:

I've been doing some thinking on this and why exactly did Oral Roberts leave the Southland to go back to the Summit League? The Southland makes more sense and even if ORU can't get in the MVC (like I'm hoping) I think you guys could still go back there. If/when Ft Wayne leaves to go to the Horizon League the Summit League will be down to 5 baseball schools, and I'm pretty sure you need 6 for an auto bid. The only school out there with baseball that would probably join the league is Chicago State. North Dakota doesn't have baseball and  UMKC, if they were to come back, doesn't either.

Check out the "Fort Wayne To The Horizon League?" thread for some spirited give-and-take on the Southland vs. Summit argument. 

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11 hours ago, mvfcfan said:

I've been doing some thinking on this and why exactly did Oral Roberts leave the Southland to go back to the Summit League? The Southland makes more sense and even if ORU can't get in the MVC (like I'm hoping) I think you guys could still go back there. If/when Ft Wayne leaves to go to the Horizon League the Summit League will be down to 5 baseball schools, and I'm pretty sure you need 6 for an auto bid. The only school out there with baseball that would probably join the league is Chicago State. North Dakota doesn't have baseball and  UMKC, if they were to come back, doesn't either.

“We are appreciative of our time in the Southland Conference and enjoy our friendships and competition with its outstanding member institutions,” ORU athletic director Mike Carter said in the statement.

“When the Southland Conference expanded to 14 teams, some of our primary objectives in joining the Southland, such as improving travel costs and developing rivalries with selected schools, are no longer possible to achieve.

...

The Southland swelled to a 14-team conference this season with the additions of Incarnate Word, Houston Baptist, New Orleans and Abilene Christian. After expansion to 14 members, it was determined that the Southland would no longer play a round-robin basketball schedule.

 
The Southland has a rich football tradition and three members (Southeastern Louisiana, McNeese State and Sam Houston State) were among 24 participants in this season’s FCS playoffs.

Football is not a sport under the The Summit League umbrella. For that reason, the league could be a better fit for ORU, which does not have a football program.

ORU was among candidates to join a basketball-driven league, the Missouri Valley Conference, when Creighton announced last year it was leaving the MVC.

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17 hours ago, Old Titan said:

Check out the "Fort Wayne To The Horizon League?" thread for some spirited give-and-take on the Southland vs. Summit argument. 

The main thing I saw on there that intrigued me was that UNDFan thinks that the Summit League is going to sponsor FBS football and add he Montanas, Idahos, and EWU. What he fails to realize is that you cannot simply just move up to FBS. You have to be invited to a FBS conference to move up. There is one exception to this and that is they could all join the WAC and go FBS that route, since the WAC is still technically an FBS conference. But it is impossible for the Summit League to sponsor FBS football. 

He also seems to be in self denial. The reason UND joined the Summit League was for travel and to rejoin the other 3 Dakota schools. The Big Sky didn't even make UND pay an exit fee, that's how bad they wanted them out. Although the Montana and Idaho schools could come to the Summit League I just don't see it happen and if it does happen it will be as an FCS conference. Just thought I should clear that up. 

I think as far as the Summit's League's future is concerned I definitely see Ft Wayne leaving. In that case I think The SL needs to invite Chicago State for baseball reasons. Without IPFW the Summit League would be down to 5 schools for baseball and that isn't enough to get an auto bid. I'd also try to get UMKC to come back. Long term I think that the Summit and WAC will probably end up merging. Both conferences are in trouble and I think the only way they survive as separate organizations is if they can get some more D2 schools to join. The only teams in most cases the WAC and Summit can poach are teams from each others' conferences. That's just not going to work forever. North Dakota was a special case because they joined just to rejoin the other Dakota schools. Also other conferences are going to eventually poach more teams from the WAC and Summit League. Just not a lot of options out there for either conference. 

From my perspective I think if ORU can't get into the Missouri Valley after next season then ORU needs to try to go back to the Southland Conference. I think the Southland overall is a better fit for ORU and I think that it is a lot more stable. Hopefully you guys just get an MVC invite along with Murray State though. :D

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I personally think the MVC is a great fit and would be all for it.  Joining with the WAC would be a nightmare.  That league is the most random gathering of schools around.

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15 hours ago, mvfcfan said:

The main thing I saw on there that intrigued me was that UNDFan thinks that the Summit League is going to sponsor FBS football and add he Montanas, Idahos, and EWU. What he fails to realize is that you cannot simply just move up to FBS. You have to be invited to a FBS conference to move up. There is one exception to this and that is they could all join the WAC and go FBS that route, since the WAC is still technically an FBS conference. But it is impossible for the Summit League to sponsor FBS football. 

He also seems to be in self denial. The reason UND joined the Summit League was for travel and to rejoin the other 3 Dakota schools. The Big Sky didn't even make UND pay an exit fee, that's how bad they wanted them out. Although the Montana and Idaho schools could come to the Summit League I just don't see it happen and if it does happen it will be as an FCS conference. Just thought I should clear that up. 

I think as far as the Summit's League's future is concerned I definitely see Ft Wayne leaving. In that case I think The SL needs to invite Chicago State for baseball reasons. Without IPFW the Summit League would be down to 5 schools for baseball and that isn't enough to get an auto bid. I'd also try to get UMKC to come back. Long term I think that the Summit and WAC will probably end up merging. Both conferences are in trouble and I think the only way they survive as separate organizations is if they can get some more D2 schools to join. The only teams in most cases the WAC and Summit can poach are teams from each others' conferences. That's just not going to work forever. North Dakota was a special case because they joined just to rejoin the other Dakota schools. Also other conferences are going to eventually poach more teams from the WAC and Summit League. Just not a lot of options out there for either conference. 

From my perspective I think if ORU can't get into the Missouri Valley after next season then ORU needs to try to go back to the Southland Conference. I think the Southland overall is a better fit for ORU and I think that it is a lot more stable. Hopefully you guys just get an MVC invite along with Murray State though. :D

Can't imagine the Southland presidents allowing ORU back into the league after the messy divorce.

I'm not sure it's unfathomable that a Summit League team without baseball might add the sport.

Wondering what the rules are about adding a D-2 baseball program into the Summit League as an affiliate member in that sport only?

Yes, UNDFan is laughably delusional.

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