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Old Titan

Fort Wayne To The Horizon League?

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ORU82

Here is why the Summit is and will remain a basketball league with other sports but not football.  To get into the FBS/D-IA "arms race" in football is insanity.  According to a report from 2015 in USA Today, North Dakota's annual budget that year for athletics was $24,880,019 for ALL SPORTS.  The smallest athletic budget in the Big 10 that same year belonged to Purdue, whose budget was $78,699,976 or over 3.16x greater than North Dakota's budget.  The largest athletic budget in the Big 10 in 2015 belonged to Ohio State who came in at $170,789,765 or almost 7x's greater than North Dakota.  By way of further example, this year in April after the season was over, Ohio State awarded their MBB Coach (Thad Matta) a bonus of $650,000 even though the Buckeyes failed for the second year in a row to qualify for the "Big Dance".  Then in June Gene Smith, OSU's AD decided it was time to can Matta, so he fired him but agreed to pay him an additional $9,000,000 which represents the remaining portion owed on his contract which runs through 2020.  My point being is that if you eliminate the $$$ drain called FBS/D-IA football or for that matter even FCS/D-IAA football, an institution can fair much better by pumping its resources into MBB.  It is ok to also deeply fund other sports such as T&F, Volleyball, Soccer, Baseball or even Hockey.  That is why Denver, Omaha, IPFW and ORU do not field football teams.  But to try and match the big boys in football is just insanity.  They have the funds to throw at sports like a drunken sailor on shore leave at a Manila cat house.  I do not see the Summit going there, now or in the future.   That is why the Missouri Valley Football Conference exists.  Neither the Summit nor the MVC go there.  

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oruvoice
1 hour ago, UNDfan said:

The Summit League could make a run at a CFP payment of at least $1  mill per fb team.  That's what Tulsa gets.  The next contract could go higher.

I never said UND would be a CFP participant, but plenty of NDSU fans have said they have a chance.

Nobody from the Summit (NDSU included) has a snowball's chance at EVER sniffing ANYTHING near the CFP.

NEVER. EVER. NEVER EVER. Not in a billion years. Not in 10 billion years.

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UNDfan
3 hours ago, Old Titan said:

Well, where's the fun in that??

If he's going to slum on here, he should at least bring chips and dip. :clap:

P.S.  Any "rumors" re: Oklahoma or Alabama adding hockey as scholarship sports were formulated in either a bar in Duluth or someone's mom's basement in Fargo, and are worthy of a post on the Facebook page of the "Flat Earth Club". :fubar:

Alabama brass have been touring college hockey rinks for ideas of what they want to build.  Since Saban, their enrollment has nearly doubled and hockey is a way to keep getting Northern kids when Saban moves on.  Tide fans would love the action more than mbb and bring them out of the sun.  There is a method to the Tides magic, but whether you have the intellectual depth to see it is questionable.  UAH already draws well for hockey.

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UNDfan
2 hours ago, oruvoice said:

Nobody from the Summit (NDSU included) has a snowball's chance at EVER sniffing ANYTHING near the CFP.

NEVER. EVER. NEVER EVER. Not in a billion years. Not in 10 billion years.

Any NCAA conference that obtains FBS status will be at the CFP bargaining table whether you approve or not.

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ManiacAlum

Dakota fans. Bless their hearts.

This discussion has gone on for 2 weeks before I understood what UND fan was getting at. I had to read through the thread like 4 times.

I think the FBS conference realignment money train left the station at least 5 years ago and it's not coming back to share any revenue with a group of FCS schools located in the most treacherous travel region of the country and with a combined TV market probably smaller than Oklahoma.

You're talking about adding an entire conference to a system where the non-power conference members already split just 25% of the profit. Why would anyone go for that? Because you guys are good at hockey? The TV ratings for last years Frozen Four equated to about a 1/4th of an average Big Monday telecast.

And as ORU82 already mentioned, it would take a significant increase to athletic budgets that are already heavily subsidized.

ORU should probably be prepared for some movement among basketball-centric conferences, but by the time any MVFC or Big Sky schools are headed for the FBS, it will be because we're all in three NCAA subdivisions and the power schools left the little guys out completely.

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oruvoice
29 minutes ago, ManiacAlum said:

Dakota fans. Bless their hearts.

This discussion has gone on for 2 weeks before I understood what UND fan was getting at. I had to read through the thread like 4 times.

I think the FBS conference realignment money train left the station at least 5 years ago and it's not coming back to share any revenue with a group of FCS schools located in the most treacherous travel region of the country and with a combined TV market probably smaller than Oklahoma.

You're talking about adding an entire conference to a system where the non-power conference members already split just 25% of the profit. Why would anyone go for that? Because you guys are good at hockey? The TV ratings for last years Frozen Four equated to about a 1/4th of an average Big Monday telecast.

And as ORU82 already mentioned, it would take a significant increase to athletic budgets that are already heavily subsidized.

ORU should probably be prepared for some movement among basketball-centric conferences, but by the time any MVFC or Big Sky schools are headed for the FBS, it will be because we're all in three NCAA subdivisions and the power schools left the little guys out completely.

Eggzactly.

Like I said...not in 10 billion years is any Summit/MVC/Dakota school ever going to be at the table with the SEC/Big 10/Etc.

Period.

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UNDfan
55 minutes ago, oruvoice said:

Eggzactly.

Like I said...not in 10 billion years is any Summit/MVC/Dakota school ever going to be at the table with the SEC/Big 10/Etc.

Period.

Yet, Louisiana-Monroe and Coastal Carolina have a seat on that table.  How can anyone rationalize that, but this board does.

The future Summit has a formidable Senate consortium that want their schools represented.  This board just doesn't understand money and power.

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UNDfan
1 hour ago, ManiacAlum said:

Dakota fans. Bless their hearts.

This discussion has gone on for 2 weeks before I understood what UND fan was getting at. I had to read through the thread like 4 times.

I think the FBS conference realignment money train left the station at least 5 years ago and it's not coming back to share any revenue with a group of FCS schools located in the most treacherous travel region of the country and with a combined TV market probably smaller than Oklahoma.

You're talking about adding an entire conference to a system where the non-power conference members already split just 25% of the profit. Why would anyone go for that? Because you guys are good at hockey? The TV ratings for last years Frozen Four equated to about a 1/4th of an average Big Monday telecast.

And as ORU82 already mentioned, it would take a significant increase to athletic budgets that are already heavily subsidized.

ORU should probably be prepared for some movement among basketball-centric conferences, but by the time any MVFC or Big Sky schools are headed for the FBS, it will be because we're all in three NCAA subdivisions and the power schools left the little guys out completely.

Many NDSU fans are so sure they will get in the MWC and MAC and become an FBS school.  No one wants to go to Fargo, as the MVC has repeatedly rejected them.

Sometimes being in a humble corner of the USA one has to get together with other humble institutions and work to the forefront where talents take you.

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oruvoice
15 minutes ago, UNDfan said:

Yet, Louisiana-Monroe and Coastal Carolina have a seat on that table.  How can anyone rationalize that, but this board does.

The future Summit has a formidable Senate consortium that want their schools represented.  This board just doesn't understand money and power.

Did you just say that ULM and CC have a seat at the Power 5 table?

This just keeps getting more funnier and more funnier.

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ManiacAlum

Well Monroe has been in the Sun Belt since 2001, so that's different. But why would you want to be ULM, or why would anyone want you to be their ULM?

And I'm pretty sure Coastal was only approved to get rid of Idaho, which was booted from the Sun Belt. Why travel to Moscow, ID when you can play conference games in Conway, SC (Myrtle Beach) and keep your conference title game.

 

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ManiacAlum
44 minutes ago, UNDfan said:

Many NDSU fans are so sure they will get in the MWC and MAC and become an FBS school.  No one wants to go to Fargo, as the MVC has repeatedly rejected them.

Sometimes being in a humble corner of the USA one has to get together with other humble institutions and work to the forefront where talents take you.

I think you accidentally keep answering your own questions.

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UNDfan
38 minutes ago, ManiacAlum said:

I think you accidentally keep answering your own questions.

But why does ORU want Fargo?  I was born in Fargo, but prefer Grand Forks, even though live a thousand miles away.

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UNDfan
1 hour ago, oruvoice said:

Did you just say that ULM and CC have a seat at the Power 5 table?

This just keeps getting more funnier and more funnier.

Only to morons such as you.  The G5 has a place at the FBS table too, and it will be a G7 in a few years.

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ManiacAlum
19 minutes ago, UNDfan said:

But why does ORU want Fargo?  I was born in Fargo, but prefer Grand Forks, even though live a thousand miles away.

Huh?

I just think that's how conferences work, especially at this level. It doesn't mean you get to invite yourself to a seat at someone else's expensive table.

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Dr. Cornelius
57 minutes ago, UNDfan said:

Only to morons such as you.  The G5 has a place at the FBS table too, and it will be a G7 in a few years.

The American, Mountain West, MAC, C-USA and Sun Belt all receive between 12 - 15 million annually from the ESPN / Playoff contract (1/6th of the Power 5's take). So each Group of Five school ends up receiving $1 million (maybe more) but does that cover costs?

Quote

 

While revenue generated by athletics continues to rise, it is being outpaced by expenses, according to an NCAA study of athletic department budgets in 2013.

The report found that expenses exceeded revenue at all but 20 schools in the Football Bowl Subdivision. The average loss among the Power 5 conferences was $2.3 million.

 

 

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WingMaaaan
2 hours ago, UNDfan said:

Only to morons such as you.  The G5 has a place at the FBS table too, and it will be a G7 in a few years.

Forget what I said before. 

giphy.gif

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oruvoice
15 hours ago, UNDfan said:

Only to morons such as you.  The G5 has a place at the FBS table too, and it will be a G7 in a few years.

If your definition of a place "at the table", means that you are like a puppy dog sitting below the table, hoping for a scrap to fall to the floor, then yes...you have a seat "at the table". Otherwise, no.

And, if you think the trajectory (moving forward) is going to do anything but WIDEN the gap between the P5 and the UND's of the world, you are sadly mistaken.

But, I do give you props for some good offseason laughs, while the message board is slow. Thanks again!!

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Old Titan
14 hours ago, WingMaaaan said:

Forget what I said before. 

giphy.gif

LOL - I rest my case.  #GetOffMyLawn

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Old Titan
20 hours ago, ManiacAlum said:

Dakota fans. Bless their hearts.

This ^^^^^  :doh:

Some of these Dakota fans remind me of an ant floating down the Mississippi River on a leaf, screaming "COMING THROUGH - RAISE THE BRIDGE!!"

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UNDfan

It's so blatantly obvious that this board doesn't have any knowledge of football finances.  Even FBS programs like La-Monroe do better than FCS ones because they play up to three guarantee games which pay out more that twice the rate for FCS-FBS games, and FCS team as only schedule one FBS game if it's serious about FCS playoffs.  A CFP payment is a bonus.  P5 conferences like the Big 10 outlaw any FCS games now, which the Dakota schools want.  The scholarship costs are not much more expensive, 63 vs 85 for FBS.  FCS programs almost always lose much more money than FBS as they have such little revenue sources.  Educate yourselves.

FBS programs get much more publicly than FCS ones too..  Its like getting free national commercials costing millions to get the exposure Coastal Carolina or La-Monroe get even being in the Belt.

The Dakotas and Montanas want that and Idaho wants some partners tor return to FBS.  Idaho will be forced to cut programs if it doesnt get back to FBS.  The Summit would be on par to the MAC and would be visiting teams for the Big Ten, netting millions.

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UNDfan
On 7/11/2017 at 0:39 PM, ORU82 said:

Here is why the Summit is and will remain a basketball league with other sports but not football.  To get into the FBS/D-IA "arms race" in football is insanity.  According to a report from 2015 in USA Today, North Dakota's annual budget that year for athletics was $24,880,019 for ALL SPORTS.  The smallest athletic budget in the Big 10 that same year belonged to Purdue, whose budget was $78,699,976 or over 3.16x greater than North Dakota's budget.  The largest athletic budget in the Big 10 in 2015 belonged to Ohio State who came in at $170,789,765 or almost 7x's greater than North Dakota.  By way of further example, this year in April after the season was over, Ohio State awarded their MBB Coach (Thad Matta) a bonus of $650,000 even though the Buckeyes failed for the second year in a row to qualify for the "Big Dance".  Then in June Gene Smith, OSU's AD decided it was time to can Matta, so he fired him but agreed to pay him an additional $9,000,000 which represents the remaining portion owed on his contract which runs through 2020.  My point being is that if you eliminate the $$$ drain called FBS/D-IA football or for that matter even FCS/D-IAA football, an institution can fair much better by pumping its resources into MBB.  It is ok to also deeply fund other sports such as T&F, Volleyball, Soccer, Baseball or even Hockey.  That is why Denver, Omaha, IPFW and ORU do not field football teams.  But to try and match the big boys in football is just insanity.  They have the funds to throw at sports like a drunken sailor on shore leave at a Manila cat house.  I do not see the Summit going there, now or in the future.   That is why the Missouri Valley Football Conference exists.  Neither the Summit nor the MVC go there.  

So why does FBS La-Monroe have a much lower budget than all Dakota and Montana schools?  Something doesn't add up with your fancy figuring.

Playing FBS for us wouldn't any different that what Bowling Green or  C Michigan or Ball State do.   Try to talk them down to FCS and they'll laugh in your face.

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Dr. Cornelius
30 minutes ago, UNDfan said:

FBS programs get much more publicly than FCS ones too..  Its like getting free national commercials costing millions to get the exposure Coastal Carolina or La-Monroe get even being in the Belt.

The Dakotas and Montanas want that and Idaho wants some partners tor return to FBS.  Idaho will be forced to cut programs if it doesnt get back to FBS.  The Summit would be on par to the MAC and would be visiting teams for the Big Ten, netting millions.

Sports at the FBS level is about TV deals. North Dakota has fewer people than Tulsa so I don't see it happening.

Montana, Idaho, & the Dakotas pooled together would have a hard time getting TV coverage. Maybe internet only, but TV?

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UNDfan
1 hour ago, Dr. Cornelius said:

Sports at the FBS level is about TV deals. North Dakota has fewer people than Tulsa so I don't see it happening.

Montana, Idaho, & the Dakotas pooled together would have a hard time getting TV coverage. Maybe internet only, but TV?

Root, a cable sports network in Seattle and Denver regions, shows Big Sky football, predominantly Montana and Montana St games.  The Dakota schools are all on Midcontinent Sports, a cable network in the Dakota's and Minnesota.  If we went FBS, Fox North out of MSP would pick us up too.  UND already gets many mbb, wbb, vb, and hockey already on that cable channel.  There's also a rumor out of Minnesota sources that UND will join the Big Ten for hockey only because Minnesota and Wisconsin  want us in so bad.  Notre Dame just joined the B1G for hockey only, but they need more power schools to compensate for how bad the Michigan's have been.  The B1G has been pathetic lately in hockey, and may actually get worse as Nebraska and Iowa have rinks now and Rutgers and Illinois are serious about hockey.  The B1G needs more power hockey teams for Minnesota and Wisconsin's sake.  Minnesota lives and dies with their hockey, and their fans love to hate us.  Certainly this board can't relate to the hockey rivalry, but it's there whether you acknowledge it or not. 

Meanwhile, the Belt doesnt have a cable TV contract and CUSA has been demoted to OTA Sinclair stations.

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UNDfan

Suspect Wichita St will join the Summit for football only.  Wichita St has big plans in the American and may get in the B12 when that league implodes as Texas, Oklahoma, and Kansas will eventually leave.  The Shockers are desperate for an FBS program again, as the American won't let them start football in that league so it needs a beginning FBS conference first.  Missouri St might join too for fb only, as they want out of the MVC now with the Shockers gone.

Both Wichita St and Mo St need an FBS affiliate first, and then they can move on from it in a few years.  

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ManiacAlum
2 hours ago, UNDfan said:

Suspect Wichita St will join the Summit for football only.  Wichita St has big plans in the American and may get in the B12 when that league implodes as Texas, Oklahoma, and Kansas will eventually leave.

giphy_17

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