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Old Titan

Fort Wayne To The Horizon League?

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ORU82

The attendance figure reported by ORU probably includes season tickets sold to people like myself who purchase tickets for seats each year knowing full well that I will be lucky to attend maybe one (1) game per year, if that.  Being about a thousand miles from Mabee I purchase these season tickets just to help the University.  To me, its like giving to the GEC which I also do, it means anything I can do to help our athletic department.  I am not alone in doing this.  I know of quite a few others who do the same, even though we are seldom sitting in our seats at Mabee.  So some of those "no shows" are more like never shows, we just purchase the tickets anyhow. 

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UNDfan
On 7/5/2017 at 4:30 PM, Old Titan said:

The stream-of-consciousness predictions of "UNDfan" remind me a little of the following classic cartoon:

 

amoh-smallv3.jpg

There are a LOT of "miracles" that would have to occur for ORU to be left crying in the corner without any dance partners, not the least of which includes efforts by the Missouri Valley Football Conference to maintain their status quo, Title IX implications for all schools involved, travel and recruiting budgets, existing and potential TV contracts, unpredictable university presidents who wield the REAL power on conference-alignment decisions like this, etc.

Overall, what I actually sense in these posts is the underlying contempt of a fan and a program that was a late invite to a party (the Summit League) they really didn't want to go to in the first place, but felt obligated to attend to avoid being a Dakota wallflower themselves.  Then, once they've arrived, they waste little time making it known they wish they were somewhere else.

Really makes you wonder why folks like that don't get party invitations in the first place, doesn't it? |(

P.S.  One thing IS for sure, though:  it's obvious we have yet another Dakota fan base that's wasted no time invading the ORU forum, if for no other reason than to cast shade on their northern rivals' "delusional garbage".

Always nice to provide a neutral site for their family squabbling, eh?  #GetOffOurLawn

 

 

 

Thought ORU grads were versed in miracles, but guess not.

UND has a larger budget than any Dakota school, but much of it doesn't show on the books as 2/3rds of all ticket sales go to our hockey complex charitable trust, which still owns that arena.  UND would be the crown jewel of the Summit and we're bringing in our Montana and Idaho friends as we all will go FBS.  Laugh all you want, but UND has several billionaires that seem interested in giving very generously to their alma mater.

The Summit won't be recognizable in a few years.  Most schools tend to flee association with the Dakotas, because they can't handle the winters.  Surprised that ORU has hung in there.

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Dr. Cornelius
3 hours ago, UNDfan said:

UND would be the crown jewel of the Summit and we're bringing in our Montana and Idaho friends as we all will go FBS.  Laugh all you want, but UND has several billionaires that seem interested in giving very generously to their alma mater.

Money can do a lot but it can't change geography. If it could some conference would have invited NDSU by now.

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UNDfan
38 minutes ago, Dr. Cornelius said:

Money can do a lot but it can't change geography. If it could some conference would have invited NDSU by now.

That's precisely the point.  Anybody that is in the least bit wanted by another conference, is already gone.  IPFW and W Illinois are not very desirable, but they too will be gone soon.  The Montanas have wanted the Dakotas in their conference for generations.  Soon, that will happen, but they will join us.  The Summit will become America's Outback Conference.

Denver is an exception, as they like hockey schools like UND and Omaha.  UND sells out Denver's Magness Arena at premium pricing, and we have an intense rivalry that carries through with other sports.  For our home hockey series against the hated Minnesota Gophers, single tickets sell for $99 everywhere in the 12k arena.  Your are now in a league with schools that emphasize hockey and football.

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Dr. Cornelius

UND just announce cuts to the athletic budget on June 9. I think getting one of those billionaires to pay the AC bills should be top priority before moving up to FBS.

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UNDfan
1 hour ago, Dr. Cornelius said:

UND just announce cuts to the athletic budget on June 9. I think getting one of those billionaires to pay the AC bills should be top priority before moving up to FBS.

UND had 21 sports before, which is just too much.  Now we have 17, and 16 is required for FBS.  A $2 million annual cost for women's hockey that brings in almost no revenue just isn't sustainable, but trying to pretend that we can keep up with Minnesota and Wisconsin on extraneous spending was just assinine.

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ORU82

Okay, let me get this straight.  We are now a Hockey/Football League or at least we are going to be so after the Idaho/Montana schools make the jump to the Summit?  How about Weber State, are they coming too or is Ogden too far from the rest of the Summit for them?  Oh and BTW, they (Weber State) do not have hockey so that rules them out.  As a matter of fact, neither do Montana, Montana State, Idaho or Idaho State have hockey, so that rules them out.  As for current Summit schools, excluding North Dakota who is technically not a member of the Summit, only Omaha and Denver field hockey teams.  So, out of the eight (8) current members of the Summit, only Denver and Omaha have hockey.  As for football, again out of the eight current members of the Summit, only NDSU, SDSU, USD and WIU field football teams, and all are housed in the Missouri Valley Football Conference.  Denver, Omaha, IPFW and ORU do not field football teams and quite frankly have zero (0) interest in fielding football teams or turning the Summit into a football conference with aspirations of going FBS/D-IA.  But yes, keep dreaming!

P.S.:  Can we please refer to North Dakota as the University of North Dakota or just North Dakota?  Whenever I hear UND I always think you are talking about the University of Notre Dame or just Notre Dame.  Sorry but back here that is what people automatically think of when someone says UND.

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Old Titan

This guy is so delusional, there's no point arguing with him. 

The last time I checked, ORU is not "now in a league with schools that emphasize hockey and football."  Quite the opposite:  UND just joined a league where BASKETBALL is the premier D-1 sport, and ONLY money-maker from a conference office standpoint.

Thinking that local fan rivalries are enough to fuel an athletic budget is simply myopic.  You can charge $1000 a ticket for single-game hockey or football tickets between intra-state rivals all you like, and it still will just be a drop in the bucket when it comes to sustaining hundreds of student-athletes over the long haul.  And, it it doesn't mean a THING to the conference office - unless they have a conference tournament or a television package in those sports (which they don't/won't), the league a whole sees no revenue from those sports.

In my book, the University of North Dakota is a Johnny-come-lately with a terminal case of narcissism (case in point their ridiculous battle over the years with the NCAA re: their mascot), who would do well to focus on being competitive in Summit League sports before assuming they are already the "conference crown jewel".

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WingMaaaan

You guys are HATERS. :tears-of-joy: I say let the guy come to our board and say what he wants. It's good to have opposing team's (non-aggressive) posters dialogue here. We gotta stop scaring these folks away. Dispute the point, but I vote we chill with all the ad hominem arguments. 

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ORUParentLurker

Seems like the most likely options are to grow the Summit by adding teams from the Big Sky or WAC (which is a disaster).

or

Look to move.  I haven't seen any mention of either the MVC or Sunbelt.  Sunbelt is a very strong baseball conference and most teams are in more easily accessible places (vs. the Southland).  MVC is stronger basketball-wise and doesn't have any football (I dont think).

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ORUJason

The Sun Belt has 12 schools for Olympic sports and 10 football schools.  Unless a team leaves the conference, my guess is that they are pretty well set with an even number of travel partners and a decent geographic footprint.

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Dr. Cornelius
1 hour ago, WingMaaaan said:

You guys are HATERS. :tears-of-joy: I say let the guy come to our board and say what he wants. It's good to have opposing team's (non-aggressive) posters dialogue here. We gotta stop scaring these folks away. Dispute the point, but I vote we chill with all the ad hominem arguments. 

I complete agree with @UNDfan that the Summit will be looking westward (Montana, Idaho, etc.) in expansion and ORU should be proactive. I just don't think any of those schools have a chance of going FBS.

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ORUParentLurker
1 hour ago, ORUJason said:

The Sun Belt has 12 schools for Olympic sports and 10 football schools.  Unless a team leaves the conference, my guess is that they are pretty well set with an even number of travel partners and a decent geographic footprint.

Probably.  Interesting the two non football schools are in cities.  New Orleans and UT Arlington.

Conference USA could be interesting as well from a geography standpoint.  I think they were 2nd to last in basketball RPI last season but there is potential.

I agree that Big Sky schools are a nice fit and I don't see how anyone would assume they want to move to FBS.  Under the current format it's crazy expensive and they don't really have a place at the table. That's why Idaho just moved down.  Now if they decide to expand the playoff significantly that could change.

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UNDfan
8 hours ago, ORU82 said:

Okay, let me get this straight.  We are now a Hockey/Football League or at least we are going to be so after the Idaho/Montana schools make the jump to the Summit?  How about Weber State, are they coming too or is Ogden too far from the rest of the Summit for them?  Oh and BTW, they (Weber State) do not have hockey so that rules them out.  As a matter of fact, neither do Montana, Montana State, Idaho or Idaho State have hockey, so that rules them out.  As for current Summit schools, excluding North Dakota who is technically not a member of the Summit, only Omaha and Denver field hockey teams.  So, out of the eight (8) current members of the Summit, only Denver and Omaha have hockey.  As for football, again out of the eight current members of the Summit, only NDSU, SDSU, USD and WIU field football teams, and all are housed in the Missouri Valley Football Conference.  Denver, Omaha, IPFW and ORU do not field football teams and quite frankly have zero (0) interest in fielding football teams or turning the Summit into a football conference with aspirations of going FBS/D-IA.  But yes, keep dreaming!

P.S.:  Can we please refer to North Dakota as the University of North Dakota or just North Dakota?  Whenever I hear UND I always think you are talking about the University of Notre Dame or just Notre Dame.  Sorry but back here that is what people automatically think of when someone says UND.

The Summit League options are:

Add Minnesota DII's such as St Cloud St, Mn-Duluth, or Minnesota St-Mankato, which are all DI hockey schools and hockey rivals of UND, (the issue is they dont have money for other DI sports and would take five years to make DI, which is far too long) or

Add Big Sky schools such as the Montanas, Idaho, Northern Colorado, etc, where football is the major sport, which are all rivals of UND too.

 

There is tremendous ignorance here about hockey.  Who is the reigning national attendance leader?  UND, with 250,000 attendance.  Who is the reigning national championship?  Denver   Who was the national championship the year before?  UND  Who are the national powers in hockey, with players mostly NHL draft Picks?  UND, Denver, BC, BU, sometimes Minnesota   Who has won the most DI hockey national championships?  Michigan has nine, but UND and Denver closely follow with eight.  We are a blueblood hockey program as much as Duke and Kansas are blueblood mbb programs.  What kind of a facility do we play In?  A 13,000 seat arena, with leather seats, marble floors, and a light and sound and atmosphere that is better than NHL or NBA games.  It's almost always sold out. It has an attached bb arena with 3200 seats, but with women's hockey having been dropped, some mbb and wbb could be played there again.

Our fans pay nearly one thousand each for each hockey season ticket and a mandatory membership in our Champions Club, so it finances much of our other sports.

If one doesn't know what UND stands for, you are in the wrong conference badly out of place.  ND is Notre Dame.  We both have the same interlocking ND, which was first used by UND, but ND copyrighted it first.  We can only use it if it has the words North Dakota nearby on the clothing.

Phil Jackson is an alumni, and maybe now that he has time ( and money) he can help upgrade our mbb program to its former glory. But we made the dance last year with a young team.

 

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Dr. Cornelius

I'm aware of UND's history and players like Toews who have played there. It's just that college hockey is only played at around 55-60 universities at the D1 level. It's a regional sport that isn't really paid attention to (even during the Frozen Four) throughout most of the country.

I don't think you want Phil Jackson anywhere near your program :smiling-face-open-mouth-tight-closed-eyes: UND seems to be doing great without him.

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UNDfan
14 minutes ago, Dr. Cornelius said:

I'm aware of UND's history and players like Toews who have played there. It's just that college hockey is only played at around 55-60 universities at the D1 level. It's a regional sport that isn't really paid attention to (even during the Frozen Four) throughout most of the country.

I don't think you want Phil Jackson anywhere near your program :smiling-face-open-mouth-tight-closed-eyes: UND seems to be doing great without him.

Ariz St started DI hockey and their are rumors that a bunch of FBS programs in the PAC12 and elsewhere like Alabama, Illinois, Pitt, Syracuse  and even Oklahoma would tackle hockey.  Could you ever see Oklahoma taking it on?  Central Oklahoma has a top-rated club program that was national champs last year.  DII doesn't have hockey, so their teams automatically can compete in DI if they choose.

There is much talent coming up because of NHL cities like Phoenix, Dallas, LA, San Jose, Denver etc.  California supplies the equivalent of several top notch teams now.   Thought OKC and Tulsa would both be viable college hockey markets.

Phil Jackson was an early opponent of the Sioux name, so many people are still upset with him.  Back in 1969, both North Dakota Sioux tribes gave the Sioux name to UND in perpetuity, but that doesn't count with the younger social justice crowd.

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ORUParentLurker

Dp

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ORUParentLurker

The obstacle to hockey is not interest, it's money.  A vast majority of D1 schools in OK and TX don't even have men's soccer even though soccer is immensely popular and there is no shortage of athletes.   Title IX makes it impossible to add a men's sport unless it is accompanied by a women's sport.  I suspect adding two hockey teams is not cheap for anyone unless you figured out a way to partner with a local pro team.

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UNDfan
21 minutes ago, TexasParent said:

Probably.  Interesting the two non football schools are in cities.  New Orleans and UT Arlington.

Conference USA could be interesting as well from a geography standpoint.  I think they were 2nd to last in basketball RPI last season but there is potential.

I agree that Big Sky schools are a nice fit and I don't see how anyone would assume they want to move to FBS.  Under the current format it's crazy expensive and they don't really have a place at the table. That's why Idaho just moved down.  Now if they decide to expand the playoff significantly that could change.

Idaho desperately wants a workable/regional conference.  The Montanas wanted FBS, but the WAC was too unstable.  NDSU really can't do much more at FCS.  SDSU has a viable FBS stadium and USD will have one shortly.  UND and EWU would need upgrades, but nothing is impossible.  

If the Summit started transitioning to FBS in 2020, they would have a seat at the CFP bargaining table by 2022.  The new CFP contract would start in 2025, and this move IMHO is all about being an FBS league by then.  The Sun Belt is almost all smaller regional U's than the Northern Tier flagship Summit conference would be.  Coastal Carolina was just invited to the Belt with an 8000 seat stadium that they are expanding to 20k.  The football schools in the Summit have much more resources than Coastal Carolina and we have t-shirt fans that the SEC does.  How many Tulsa Hurricane fans are there in the Tulsa area?  Not many I'm guessing, compared to OU and OSU.  UND would have fans statewide, although NDSU has the bandwagon fb fans right now, but UND has a ton of hockey fans that will also follow fb.

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UNDfan
11 minutes ago, TexasParent said:

The obstacle to hockey is not interest, it's money.  A vast majority of D1 schools in OK and TX don't even have men's soccer even though soccer is immensely popular and there is no shortage of athletes.   Title IX makes it impossible to add a men's sport unless it is accompanied by a women's sport.  I suspect adding two hockey teams is not cheap for anyone unless you figured out a way to partner with a local pro team.

If you have a situation with a minor league rink close to a campus, that eliminates the huge upfront cost of building a rink with at least 4k seats.  The U's of Colorado, Arizona, Utah, and Texas Tech all have rinks nearby that would drastically reduce their startup costs.  One of the big issues is hockey conference affiliation, as there has been traditionally few openings especially in the Midwest and West.  That has changed somewhat as the whole hockey conference situation has seen a massive realignment when the Big Ten started sponsoring it.

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oruvoice

Did you just intimate that UND could make a run at the CFP table?!?!?!?

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for the laugh. My day has been brightened!

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theeagleman5

If UND could make a run at the CFP title then what would stop TheEagleman from making a run at Sophia Vergara?.....:geek:...........oh yeah.....MrsEagleman.....;-)

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UNDfan
1 hour ago, oruvoice said:

Did you just intimate that UND could make a run at the CFP table?!?!?!?

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for the laugh. My day has been brightened!

The Summit League could make a run at a CFP payment of at least $1  mill per fb team.  That's what Tulsa gets.  The next contract could go higher.

I never said UND would be a CFP participant, but plenty of NDSU fans have said they have a chance.

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Old Titan
18 hours ago, WingMaaaan said:

You guys are HATERS. :tears-of-joy: I say let the guy come to our board and say what he wants. It's good to have opposing team's (non-aggressive) posters dialogue here. We gotta stop scaring these folks away. Dispute the point, but I vote we chill with all the ad hominem arguments. 

Well, where's the fun in that??

If he's going to slum on here, he should at least bring chips and dip. :clap:

P.S.  Any "rumors" re: Oklahoma or Alabama adding hockey as scholarship sports were formulated in either a bar in Duluth or someone's mom's basement in Fargo, and are worthy of a post on the Facebook page of the "Flat Earth Club". :fubar:

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Dr. Cornelius
31 minutes ago, Old Titan said:

P.S.  Any "rumors" re: Oklahoma or Alabama adding hockey as scholarship sports...

Dean Blevins becomes an old time hockey fan overnight

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