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Dr. Cornelius

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4 hours ago, MrsSmith said:

Albert graduates.  Any chance he will transfer?

 

Wow, I did not know that Albert was graduating in just three years - now THAT'S impressive.

As for whether he might use that fact to transfer to another school is an excellent question - but I sure hope not!

And, did I not see somewhere that the "graduate-with-eligibility-left,-transfer-out,-and-play-immediately" rule had been tightened somewhat?

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I gotta admit, I do miss the old "Oh-O-R-U" fight song myself - it's a little bit slow, but it's catchy and fun to sing.

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3 minutes ago, Old Titan said:

I gotta admit, I do miss the old "Oh-O-R-U" fight song myself - it's a little bit slow, but it's catchy and fun to sing.

And how about the TITAN Train?!     T-I-T-A-N-S Titans!   Fun times!

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Any chance that changing conference affiliation twice in two years played a part in all of this?

I would imagine that would effect recruiting and upheaval on the coaching staff.

(I mean, probably not, but I think this would be a talking point if I was representing Scott Sutton... ORU athletics won over 100 conference championships in its first 15 years with the Summit League. By my count, we've only won 3 in the last 4 years-- WBB in the Southland and Baseball has two since returning to the Summit.)

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7 hours ago, ManiacAlum said:

Any chance that changing conference affiliation twice in two years played a part in all of this?

I would imagine that would effect recruiting and upheaval on the coaching staff.

(I mean, probably not, but I think this would be a talking point if I was representing Scott Sutton... ORU athletics won over 100 conference championships in its first 15 years with the Summit League. By my count, we've only won 3 in the last 4 years-- WBB in the Southland and Baseball has two since returning to the Summit.)

It can't have helped.

Another big issue has been retention of better-quality talent.  I can't remember another stretch like the past few years where ORU has lost so many starters or potential starters.  Jorden Kaufmann, Drew Wilson, D.J. Jackson, Bobby Word, Korey Bilbury, Chris Crawford, Daquan Jefferies - they all might have figured prominently the past few seasons, and it's not as if a college team can go out and sign a free agent when a proven upper-classman or promising under-classman is lost.  Each departure leaves a hole in your roster that causes ripple effects for the next couple of years.

I have to wonder how much the coinciding turnover in the assistant coaching staff the past few years has affected the number of players lost before their time.  When an assistant coach who was instrumental in recruiting a player (or players) either leaves voluntarily or is forced out, it inevitably creates an atmosphere of doubt and re-evaluation for those player(s), and some who may have considered that assistant a mentor (or even a father-figure) can lose their way in that coach's absence.  There must have been a LOT of that type of angst within the ORU roster of late.

And again, THAT can't have helped, either...

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22 minutes ago, Old Titan said:

It can't have helped.

Another big issue has been retention of better-quality talent.  I can't remember another stretch like the past few years where ORU has lost so many starters or potential starters.  Jorden Kaufmann, Drew Wilson, D.J. Jackson, Bobby Word, Korey Bilbury, Chris Crawford, Daquan Jefferies - they all might have figured prominently the past few seasons, and it's not as if a college team can go out and sign a free agent when an upper-classman is lost.  Each departure leaves a hole in your roster that causes ripple effects for the next couple of years.

I have to wonder how much the coinciding turnover in the assistant coaching staff the past 5 years has affected the number of players lost before their time.  When an assistant coach who was instrumental in recruiting a player (or players) either leaves voluntarily or is forced out, it inevitably creates a sense of doubt and re-evaluation for those player(s), and some who looked at their assistant as a mentor (or even father figure) can lose their way in that coach's absence.  There must have been a LOT of that type of angst within the ORU roster of late.

And again, THAT can't have helped, either...

In flipping the channels last night I came across the UIC (Illinois-Chicago) vs. Younsgstown State game...I caught the last 5 minutes or so of watching Jordan Kaufmann rumble up and down the court with not the greatest of ease......let's just say that Jordan has gotten a little thicker since the last time I saw him in an ORU uniform....again, I only saw a small sample size, but he looked like he had just finished a marathon, and really wasn't a factor offensively or defensively...

But you're right OT, the turnover has been high....will be interesting to see what, if any, ORU has as a fallout of this dismal season?

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1 minute ago, ORUIllini said:

In flipping the channels last night I came across the UIC (Illinois-Chicago) vs. Younsgstown State game...I caught the last 5 minutes or so of watching Jordan Kaufmann rumble up and down the court with not the greatest of ease......let's just say that Jordan has gotten a little thicker since the last time I saw him in an ORU uniform....again, I only saw a small sample size, but he looked like he had just finished a marathon, and really wasn't a factor offensively or defensively...

But you're right OT, the turnover has been high....will be interesting to see what, if any, ORU has as a fallout of this dismal season?

Actually, that's a pretty large sample size you're talking about.  *rimshot*

I think it would be fair to say that Jorden had (still has?) a little issue with consumables of all sorts, if ya know what I mean.

But, he did have potential - I would have liked to see what he might have become, spending four years at the same place.

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Also, if you look at this year's roster, we had 6 newcomers (5 freshman and 1 sophomore transfer) and only 1 has played any meaningful minutes.

Generally speaking, if someone is going to make an impact on your program, they are able to do so pretty early on. Not a lot of players that ride the pine as freshmen, turn into all-conference players. Chad Wilkerson not-withstanding.

In my mind, the bottom line is recruiting. The team with the better players generally wins. You can X & O until you're blue in the face, but the biggest/fastest horse generally wins the race...

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Speaking of Slim Wilkerson, how is his coaching career going?  Wonder if he would he ever be a candidate to return and assist at ORU?

Bring back the flame.

Rob

 

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On 2/9/2017 at 9:30 AM, Old Titan said:

I would be truly shocked if there would be a change now, for a variety of reasons that EVERY school must consider at times like this:

• You have a head coach who is universally liked, has enjoyed previous success, has shown incredible loyalty, and who has multiple years (Two? Three? More?) left on a contact that reportedly pays between $400-500K per season.  Who's gonna pay that buyout if you fire him?  Think he's going to agree to a settlement for less if he's forced out?  I wouldn't; I doubt any of you would either.

• You have an AD who is fiercely loyal to both the head coach and the coach's family, who will not make a move unless the university president forces him to (and, in that case, remember point No. 1 above).

• Even IF the president is successful in forcing the AD to make the move AND comes up with the buyout money, your AD is in the twilight of his career and no doubt has an exit plan of his own for retirement some day soon, and one of the first rules of coaching at the college level is NEVER take a head coaching job from an AD that might leave or retire during your initial contract.  Professional suicide, because the AD's replacement may not have your back, since you weren't "his guy".  So, what kind of coach can the school expect to hire with that lame-duck AD doing the search?  You would need a new AD to head up the search for the leader of your flagship sport.

So, in my mind, the first domino to fall for any kind of change in a situation like this would be the AD retiring.  Then, a new AD is brought in with the assignment of evaluating the men's basketball program, and making the tough choices (if things have not improved on the court and at the turnstiles).  And, by that time, the head coach's contract would be more manageable from a financial standpoint (perhaps even a year-to-year situation by then).

In other words:  a change ain't happening any time soon, UNLESS the AD retires, and even then I would think the head coach would get at least 1-2 more years to straighten things out.

Kudos to OT for one of his best posts ever; a well-founded, pragmatic view of the situation.  When you cut through the emotion and the frustration of this season and simply look at the FACTS, this answer becomes quite clear.  While there may be changes in the program, it's not likely to occur at the head coach position.

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On 2/12/2017 at 10:04 AM, TrueBlue82 said:

Kudos to OT for one of his best posts ever; a well-founded, pragmatic view of the situation.  When you cut through the emotion and the frustration of this season and simply look at the FACTS, this answer becomes quite clear.  While there may be changes in the program, it's not likely to occur at the head coach position.

Thx, JB - that means a lot.

And, for those who might be wondering, I have no clue when Mike Carter might retire; I just did the math:  he earned his bachelor's degree from OSU in 1970 (law degree from TU in '72), so I'm guessing he's in his late sixties.

I can only imagine that, when one is about to turn 70 years old, the golf course and the grandchildren might be looking a lot more appealing than the day-in, day-out strain of running a college athletic department.

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^^^^ This ^^^^

Sidebar:  Fran Fraschilla, former New Mexico and St. John's coach, was openly interested in the ORU head coaching job when it looked like Scott Sutton was headed to Wichita State.  He lives in the Oklahoma City area, but now says he is not interested in a return to coaching, opting instead for the ESPN commentator life.

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TheEagleman enjoys watching a game when Fran Fraschilla is doing the color....he was a pretty decent coach back at St. Johns in the day and has always treated ORU well when doing a few of our games over the past decade....if Scott had left he would not have been a bad choice....:smile:

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Big fan of Fraschilla. One of the best commentators in sports. Will usually watch the game if he's calling it no matter who is playing.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2/9/2017 at 10:30 AM, Old Titan said:

I would be truly shocked if there would be a change now, for a variety of reasons that EVERY school must consider at times like this:

• You have a head coach who is universally liked, has enjoyed previous success, has shown incredible loyalty, and who has multiple years (Two? Three? More?) left on a contact that reportedly pays between $400-500K per season.  Who's gonna pay that buyout if you fire him?  Think he's going to agree to a settlement for less if he's forced out?  I wouldn't; I doubt any of you would either.

• You have an AD who is fiercely loyal to both the head coach and the coach's family, who will not make a move unless the university president forces him to (and, in that case, remember point No. 1 above).

• Even IF the president is successful in forcing the AD to make the move AND comes up with the buyout money, your AD is in the twilight of his career and no doubt has an exit plan of his own for retirement some day soon, and one of the first rules of coaching at the college level is NEVER take a head coaching job from an AD that might leave or retire during your initial contract.  Professional suicide, because the AD's replacement may not have your back, since you weren't "his guy".  So, what kind of coach can the school expect to hire with that lame-duck AD doing the search?  You would need a new AD to head up the search for the leader of your flagship sport.

So, in my mind, the first domino to fall for any kind of change in a situation like this would be the AD retiring.  Then, a new AD is brought in with the assignment of evaluating the men's basketball program, and making the tough choices (if things have not improved on the court and at the turnstiles).  And, by that time, the head coach's contract would be more manageable from a financial standpoint (perhaps even a year-to-year situation by then).

In other words:  a change ain't happening any time soon, UNLESS the AD retires, and even then I would think the head coach would get at least 1-2 more years to straighten things out.

Case in point, from YahooSports.com today:

It appears the search for Tennessee’s next athletic director has come to an end. According to multiple reports, the Vols have hired Kansas State’s John Currie to succeed Dave Hart, who announced his retirement last August.

At Tennessee, Currie will be tasked with weighing the job performance of Butch Jones, whose teams have underperformed in the lackluster SEC East in recent years. The Vols have gone 9-4 in each of the last two seasons, but have failed to usurp Florida as division champion despite high expectations. In four seasons, Jones has a 30-21 record at Tennessee, with a 14-18 mark in SEC play.

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