Help us out

[ORU82]

Sorry OT, but I say keep Tulsa on the schedule. Right now it is not easy getting either P5 or upper mid majors into your house.  By upper mid majors I think Witchita State/Memphis.  No, I do not consider TU in that category, but I would rather see them than Tabor/NEOkla.St. Or whoever.  By the way, I would love to see OU/OkieSt./Arkansas in Mabee on a regular basis.

[oruvoice]

Great post by OT above, about TU.

Also, great post by Bad Blood just above, on scheduling.

The days of getting OU, OSU, Arkansas, or the like to come to the Mabee Center, even on a 2-for-1 or 3-for-1, are pretty much gone. One other factor to think about...the administration at ORU (above the athletic department), see athletics thru the lens of the "bottom line". To get home games costs A LOT of money.

So many things to consider, beyond us fans "wanting" better home games. The TU game (whether some fans on either side want to admit it), is good for BOTH programs. Even from TU's standpoint, the ORU game has been one of their biggest attendance draws. The TU-ORU the last couple of times at the Don Rey has only been about 5,000-6,000...but to their chagrin, that is still better than most of their home games.

[Old Titan]

In those scenarios, it boils down to the coaches:  Lon Kruger has proven willing to venture out of the LNC if the deal favors OU.  Travis Ford is scheduling scared but will be gone as soon as T. Boone can afford it.  Mike Anderson at Arkansas is on his last legs, as well.  And both OSU and Arkansas have issues with scheduling against a Sutton, which some day in the future will change (but, in my lifetime?).

Never said it would be easy.  I'm just saying (in an attempt to somewhat return to the point of this thread) that ORU's non-conference scheduling paradigm shouldn't have "Playing Tulsa" as the one unbreakable law.

I see the same thing in the business world, small companies falling into the trap of thinking they can't survive without their biggest client, or their biggest supplier, even when that client/supplier is a total pain in the butt.  And then one day, that client or supplier moves on, or goes out of business, and what does that small company do?  THEY FIGURE IT OUT.  Necessity is the mother of invention!  And, is it easy?  No!  But, in the long run, is it worse, all things considered?  NO!  That little company grows up, and realizes THEY ARE BETTER THAN THAT, that they don't have to run around scared all the time, and they typically emerge stronger and more self-reliant as a result.

Close your eyes and pretend TU suddenly refused to play ORU, like when Doug Wojcik tucked-tail in his final year:  what would ORU do then?  How would we schedule instead?

Now, open your eyes and DO that - and tell TU to go find some other red-headed stepchild to kick around.

[oruvoice]

I hear your points, OT.

But honestly, I enjoy playing TU every year and kicking them around like the red-headed step child. I mean, next year we are likely to be favored in that game, to make it a 4-peat! LOL!!

[Old Titan]

14 minutes ago, oruvoice said:

I hear your points, OT.

But honestly, I enjoy playing TU every year and kicking them around like the red-headed step child. I mean, next year we are likely to be favored in that game, to make it a 4-peat! LOL!!

To my point, ORU could beat Tulsa TEN times in a row, and a large majority of Golden Hurricane fans would still not respect this program.

You know what most TU fans say after an ORU win in this series? 

"Fire the coach." 

Ever since Nolan Richardson was hired in 1979 with the simple walking orders of "Beat ORU", they view this game as a litmus test; a Mendoza Line they dare never fall beneath.

To them, anything short of complete victory is cause for a purge, not plaudits.

[oruvoice]

I don't really care what they think. It's a fun inner-city rivalry game...for BOTH sides...whether they like to admit it or not. I've been to A LOT of TU games over the years and the loudest, wildest crowd I've ever seen in that place (BY FAR) was Caleb Green's senior year, after we had beaten them 3 straight, and they put a whoopin' on us.

Play TU.

AND...try to schedule more games on top of that. How about "both" is the right answer?!?

[Old Titan]

A compromise:  a minimum five-year hiatus from the series when this contract runs out.  A sort of trial separation before the divorce.

I'm betting both programs would come to find that "staying together for the kids" was never worth the inherent rancor.

[oruvoice]

Sorry OT, I disagree with you on this one.

I, and I think most TU & ORU folks enjoy the game.

If we (or they) had a GREAT non-conference home schedule, then I might be able to get on board with a hiatus. But, even TU struggles to get "quality" non-conference home games.

[Bad Blood]

Sorry, I'm just not seeing a compelling reason to end the series beyond "OT doesn't like Tulsa fans."

Oklahoma is no more apt to play a non-con road game at a mid-major than anyone else. They played one road game this year, two last year, and haven't played a mid-major on campus and on the road since they came to the Mabee in 2012.

[Old Titan]

2 hours ago, Bad Blood said:

Sorry, I'm just not seeing a compelling reason to end the series beyond "OT doesn't like Tulsa fans."

Oklahoma is no more apt to play a non-con road game at a mid-major than anyone else. They played one road game this year, two last year, and haven't played a mid-major on campus and on the road since they came to the Mabee in 2012.

Aww, and you were doing so well until that one!

It's not about me "not liking TU fans".

It's about respect.  Or more accurately, the lack thereof when it comes to ORU basketball in general, and ORU as an institution in particular.

TU's fans, students, athletic administration, and overall leadership traditionally show little-to-no respect for ORU on or off the playing field, and I've simply grown tired of ORU's naive "They'll Like Us Once We've Won" attitude, ever since I was 12 years old, sitting behind the bench on the hockey ice at The Pavilion, watching grown men and women curse and throw ice and paper cups at the ORU players and coaches during the inaugural game in the series.

Doesn't ORU as a program have a higher calling than subjecting itself to such treatment, just for an additional couple of thousand walk-up tickets sold every other year?  If not, shouldn't it?  (rhetorical question - no need to respond.  We can agree to disagree...)

 

[EagleManiac]

I see no reason to end the series. As long as TU is willing to continue with it, let's play. But I do like what OT is saying. Neither team NEEDS the game. Not sure who started the idea that the American is a Power 5 conference or close to it, but that is way off. It's a conference with a couple of has-been programs and a long list of nobodies. It's a couple of slots ahead of the Summit in conference rankings and that's largely due to SMU's outstanding season (banned from post-season). Tulsa is a good mid-major program, and it's a good series. But the idea in Tulsa's mind that we should bend over backwards for them is ludicrous. We need the game no more than they do.

Does anyone know when the current contract runs up?

[ORU82]

Good post EagleManiac!  The AAC is not a P5 conference in either basketball nor football.  And, TU is a mid major period.  However, until we can get better teams in the Mabee, you have to keep a Tulsa caliber team on the schedule for lack of better options.  On a side note, I laugh at Tulsa's arrogance because outside of the Tulsa metroplex they really have no curb appeal anywhere else.

[Bad Blood]

Fine, TU fans don't respect ORU. I can totally understand why that bothers you, but it's not a reason to end the series.

Ive also never sensed that ORU sees a win over Tulsa as the only measuring stick. Could just be me.

[Old Titan]

13 minutes ago, Bad Blood said:

Ive also never sensed that ORU sees a win over Tulsa as the only measuring stick. Could just be me.

That's my point!  Ranted about that right off the top of this thread. 

That's why it's OK to drop TU, accept the home non-conference scheduling conundrum for the dumpster fire that it is with or without them, and move on to scheduling just one or two of the forty-three other D-1 schools in Oklahoma, Texas, Arkansas, Missouri, New Mexico or Colorado. 

[ORU82]

I agree about getting more mid majors in the Mabee, and I do not mean Southland also rans.  Being next door to the Mo Valley, can we schedule more home/aways with them?  Also, try the MAC or A-10.  Even CUSA or AAC teams.  However, whoever you get from these leagues, it has to be a home/away series.  I also forgot the MWC.  In other words, there are mid majors with curb/fan appeal who are in a similar boat to us who should be willing to do home/away.  Keep trying lower level P5's as well.

[Bad Blood]

Do you honestly think the ORU coaches AREN'T trying?

Go look at any schedule in the Summit League or a comparable conference and tell me who has a consistently, markedly better home non-conference schedule.

[Old Titan]

3 hours ago, Bad Blood said:

Do you honestly think the ORU coaches AREN'T trying?

Go look at any schedule in the Summit League or a comparable conference and tell me who has a consistently, markedly better home non-conference schedule.

That's like asking if fans "honestly think the coaches aren't trying" to win games, or sign top recruits, etc.

Of course they're trying. 

But, these are the kinds of questions that are inevitably (and frankly, fairly) going to come up when a program suffers through a down period such as this, with fewer wins, fewer marquee home games, and fewer fans in the seats.

It is, to put it mildly, troubling...

 

[ORUalum]

heard Mike Carter on the coaches show a few weeks ago when asked about the state of the athletic program mention that Dr Wilson challenged all the coaches to bring in more Christian athletes.  Carter said in the past the philosophy was to use athletics as way to get non Christians on campus and in the ORU environment (as a mission field of sorts).  not sure if he was offering this as an excuse, but it might be one of many reasons for the move to the middle of the pack in the Summit.

my point is, we really do not know all the challenges the coaches face at a unique place like ORU, but i sure wish they were competing towards the top of the pack in more sports.

 

as to ending the TU series,  that is all we have to hang our hat on the last few years.  beating TU has sadly become the highlight of basketball season, it's been all downhill the rest of the basketball calendar after that game.