Old Titan Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 If he's been deemed ineligible due to his performance (or lack thereof) during the Fall semester, why should any conference game in which he's played (such as the Mastodons' win over ORU) count in the Summit League standings ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeagleman5 Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 TheEagleman agrees.....that makes ORU 3-2!!!!..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Blood Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Academically, you're always working to earn your eligibility for the next semester. Like it or not, once he was deemed eligible for the fall semester, he was eligible to play in every game until the next set of grades were posted, no matter his academic performance during that semester. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeagleman5 Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 OH WELL.....above .500 record was short lived....back to 2-3..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted January 15, 2016 Author Share Posted January 15, 2016 That's a bad loophole. They had to have an inkling leading into the break in mid-December that the kid had failed enough classes that wouldn't be eligible when school resumed the second week in January, yet they played him anyway in several conference games beginning the last week of December. That's just wrong. Conference basketball is a second-semester sport; should be "all or nothing" in terms of which players are eligible to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted January 15, 2016 Author Share Posted January 15, 2016 In related "no longer with us" news, NDSU junior Carlin Dupree quit the team this week. He was the starting point guard before being demoted a few games back, and was 3rd on the team in minutes played: http://www.thedickinsonpress.com/sports/college/3922844-unhappy-his-role-ndsu-guard-dupree-leaves-mens-basketball-team Guard play is the Bison's greatest weakness this season; this does not help matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORUJason Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Sounds like a Chris Crawford type situation. Why would he quit now. Could he still transfer to another school for the 2nd semester? I imagine the grass will not be greener somewhere else and he will regret this decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsSmith Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 1 hour ago, Old Titan said: That's a bad loophole. They had to have an inkling leading into the break in mid-December that the kid had failed enough classes that wouldn't be eligible when school resumed the second week in January, yet they played him anyway in several conference games beginning the last week of December. That's just wrong. Conference basketball is a second-semester sport; should be "all or nothing" in terms of which players are eligible to play. IPFW has a December/January intersession which ended 1/10. That may have to do with the timing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Blood Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 2 hours ago, Old Titan said: That's a bad loophole. They had to have an inkling leading into the break in mid-December that the kid had failed enough classes that wouldn't be eligible when school resumed the second week in January, yet they played him anyway in several conference games beginning the last week of December. That's just wrong. Conference basketball is a second-semester sport; should be "all or nothing" in terms of which players are eligible to play. Two things: - I don't have any idea what the kid's academic situation is, but to just assume he failed a bunch of classes is not fair. It's not just a GPA situation; you also have to have passed enough hours that you're on track to get a degree at the end of each semester. If you're taking a full load, you usually have some wiggle room, but if you're taking the minimum number of hours, it's possible to get A's in all but one of your classes, fail one core class, and lose your eligibility for a semester. Before you scoff, I actually knew a basketball player in college that had this exact scenario happen to him. Dude wasn't 4.0 kid or anything, but his grades were pretty average (think he even made Dean's List once or twice). I don't remember the specifics, but somehow he ended up dropping/failing a core class in one spring semester, then it wasn't available to take over the summer like he had anticipated, and when it was all said and done he was ineligible for the next fall semester and missed the first dozen basketball games, even though his overall grades really weren't bad. Summer school helps a lot of athletes avoid this situation, because they essentially get one or two extra semesters to pass two semesters' worth of hours, but if you go to a school that doesn't offer a ton of summer options, you may only get one chance to pass some classes, and if you fail, you lose your eligibility. Again, I don't know this kid's detailed academic history at all... but neither do you. And it's entirely plausible that he was doing fine for the most part but was borderline on one class, and when the final grades came out, he failed it, which cost him second semester. - This is a common issue in basketball and part of the reason why some folks would like to see it become a second-semester only sport (in fact, there are some folks that want to see all two-semester sports done away with, and they have some good points). Athletes who participate in one-semester sports (even ones who aren't struggling to stay eligible) can load up academically in the off-season and then take a lighter load while in competition, but basketball players (and swimmers, divers and wrestlers) aren't afforded that luxury, because their season covers both semesters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted January 15, 2016 Author Share Posted January 15, 2016 *sigh* The point I'm trying to make (which I thought was pretty obvious) is this: • IPFW had to know something was up by the time of their first Summit League game. Gone are the days when semester grades take weeks to be posted. My daughter in college knows her test scores and final class grades before loading the car to head home for Christmas. And if IPFW (or any other league school) knows they have a player who's ineligible for the second semester, there's no reason why they couldn't inform the league office as part of a policy in place to restrict ineligible players from participating in conference play. • Never heard of anything like what you described of a really good student losing his eligibility over a technicality. This is going to sound kinda cruel, but everyone I can remember being around who was in that boat (which is more than a few) was a train wreck academically day-in-and-day-out. Ineligibility was the inevitable culmination of a series of events that were pretty visible on the radar leading up to it. It was sometimes more of a surprise when they WERE eligible. • Riddle me this: if a school can't determine whether a kid is eligible by the last week of December, then how is it that mid-year transfers and such who sit out the first semester are allowed to start playing in games right after first semester classes end? How does a coach know if that kid passed the grade in the first semester, literally and figuratively? For that matter, how do they know if ANYONE on the team has? Does this mean every team in America goes into some sort of fog around the third week of December, not knowing who's going to be eligible around the second week of January? That just seems a little far-fetched to me. Though, I'm sure you'll enlighten me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Blood Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 Ok, first off, I don't give a rip of youve ever heard a story like the one I told or not. I was there, knew the kid in question, and know the situation went down as I described it. You never hearing it before really doesn't trouble me at all. Second, if you'll go back and read what I wrote again, you'll see I never described the kid as a "really good student". I said he made average grades and may have snuck on the deans list after an easy semester. I also never said he (or the IPFW kid) was blameless in the situation. Yes, you typically have to make some irresponsible choices or slack off in the classroom to wind up ineligible. The way I remember the situation with this fellow, he failed or dropped a class he needed to stay on track (bad) and assumed incorrectly without consulting advisors that he could get it back in the summer (bad). But, again, this is my point: it's unfair to just assume the kid was failing tons of classes across the board and the coaches let him play anyway knowing he wouldn't be there next semester. I guess it's possible that it went down like that (and you do like to assume the worst in people), but there are plenty of plausible scenarios where the player was on the fence academically and the coaches let him continue playing hoping for the best. (Can I pause to say that A: that's perfectly ok, and B: it almost certainly happens at every school you pull for. Believe Jesus said something about specks of sawdust, planks, and eyes that's appropriate right about now.) I want to touch on briefly on a few more points you made where you simply aren't knowledgeable enough to state your opinions with the confidence you project. First, yeah, your daughter and most other college student have a very good idea what their grades are before they leave for the semester. They may even know the exact grades. But there's still a lengthy process at every school where those grades are reviewed, certified and made official, and until you reach that point, well, they aren't official. And you can't determine athletic eligibility until they are. Second, mid-year transfers aren't elibigle until first semester grades are official. Period. I know this for a fact. Third, most schools have a grades appeal process, and that can make the certification process take even longer for students who appeal. And, frankly, I have no problem with an athlete continuing to play while appealing a grade - no idea if it happened at IPFW but it's not wrong at all. Last but not least... You're not going to agree with this, but I don't care: even if the situation went down like you assume it did (worst case scenario as always) and the IPFW coaches knowingly played a player that they knew had no shot of being eligible in a couple weeks, well, that's fine by me. Really does not bother me at all. Like I said, all student-athletes earn their NCAA eligibility for the next semester. The current semester has no bearing. They are eligible until the moment the next semester begins. The student-athlete in question earned the right to play in those games with his academic performance in the spring and summer of 2015. Who are you to take that away from him? The rules that the governing body laid out and the member schools and conferences ratified gave him the right to play in those games, and until the rules are changed, it's not your place to deny him that right, or to condemn him for exercising his right, or to condemn his coaches for allowing him to exercise his right. It makes you look vindictive, and you are wrong. Deal with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted January 16, 2016 Author Share Posted January 16, 2016 Wow. 5000 words dedicated to discrediting a simple opinion, while straining mightily at every turn to antagonize with personal digs, and I'M "vindictive"?? That's pretty funny. (Though, next time, save yourself the carpal tunnel syndrome and everyone else's time with a simple "Up yours", or something similar.) Getting back to the topic (and without the vitriol), I still say any system which can currently determine ELIGIBILTY in time for games immediately following the end of the first semester, could - and SHOULD - be used to determine INELIGIBILITY in the same time frame, and if the offended player wants to appeal it, or can complete some sort of extra credit or intersession course, or get a professor to change a grade, or whatever to regain his eligibility, then more power to him. Come to think of it, wouldn't really have a problem with that 2nd semester ineligible player competing in NON-conference games until the 2nd semester started. This is all about fairness during CONFERENCE play (which was the impetus of my initial indignation, not vindictiveness), where every game matters in the standings leading up to the conference tournament (especially for a one-bid conference like the Summit League, where tournament seeding is critical). Every effort should be made to assure that conference play is conducted on a level playing field, and having a portion of the conference schedule played under a different set of eligibility rules for the first 2-3 weeks than for the rest of the year just seems inconsistent to me. And, yes, even if the player involved plays for ORU... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORUalum Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Titan Posted January 16, 2016 Author Share Posted January 16, 2016 And here I figured anyone with even a passing interest in this junior high slapfest had either slit their wrists or punched their computer by now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakesbison Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Carlin Dupree wanted to be the starter (even though he was averaging more points off the bench) because he wanted to be able to say 3 year starter so he could get a Euro bball contract. weird I know. but the kid did help us upset Oklahoma in big dance with 2 clutch FT"S and a 3 point play . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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