41 replies to this topic

[dsummitfan]

Maybe someone in the Athletic Department or someone with some Knowledge can help answer this question. A Few weeks ago Mike Carter made the announcement that ORU was going to the Southland Conference, he also mentioned that the womens basketball team has 3 fewer scholarships than the mens team has to offer. Why would the men be able to offer more scholarships than the women? Isn't there an equality issue? I also noticed that EVERY conference home game for the men was broadcast on TV and only one for the women, don't they have to spend equal amount of media dollars on men as they do on women? I see there is a whiteout and a bobblehead night coming up for the men, when is the bobblehead and whiteout coming for the women? Funny to see 4 coaches on the womens bench and about 6 on the mens bench, coaching budgets are supposed to be the same for the men and for the women, you can't tell me the mens coaches are making the same amount as the women.

Misti said the other night in the Golden Eagle Club dinner that we only attempted to sign one player this year in recruiting is that because we only had one scholarship to offer! How is this possible if we are losing 3 seniors who are all on scholarship? So it sounds to me that our womens team has been competing in a league (The Summit) going up against teams that have full resources while we are limited. It also seems that we will be heading to the Southland Conference handicap and with fewer scholarships to offer than our opponents will have.

Is there Gender Equality? I ask for some answers if anyone has them?

[r2b1]

"I also noticed that EVERY conference home game for the men was broadcast on TV and only one for the women, don't they have to spend equal amount of media dollars on men as they do on women? I see there is a whiteout and a bobblehead night coming up for the men, when is the bobblehead and whiteout coming for the women?"

Surely you aren't just now noticing the vast difference in how the men's basketball team is marketed vs. the women's basketball team. Many people have wondered the very same thing....couldn't the marketing of the women's basketball program be stepped up? I'm guessing it comes down to funds. The men's program generates more revenue due to ticket sales. The women's program has increased the ticket prices; however, they aren't selling a ton of tickets.

Regarding your other questions/statements - have you never heard of Title IX? I think that might have some answers to your questions regarding what is considered "equity". I found a quick fact sheet (nevermind on the MU website) but might give you some insight. http://equity.missou...y/athletics.php

Finally, don't assume that ORU has been or will be heading to Southland Conference handicapped. You would have to compare scholarships with the other teams in both conferences, as they may experience the same at their schools before coming to that conclusion. Regarding losing 3 scholarships and replacing only with one, not sure what that is due to. Are there some currently on the team that are not on scholarship that will be added? Or is ORU having to give up some scholarships due to the conference move?

[Old Titan]

[oruvoice]

I love ORU women's basketball as much as anyone. I would venture to say that over the past 23 years, I have witnessed more ORU women's basketball games that anyone. That said...

If you can find a sponsor that is willing to shell out $15,000 for the bobbleheads and another $15,000 for the t-shirts, you could have a promotion like that for a women's game.

Same/similar answer goes toward the other questions in this thread. Simple economics. I'm sorry that is the answer and I truly wish it were different, but it's not. There is simply not a market for TV, advertising, tickets, etc, for women's athletics.

Hopefully it will change in the future. I would LOVE to see 10,000 in the seats, televised games, and big sponsor dollars flow into ORU women's basketball!

[ORUalum]

women get 15 scholarships and there are 13 for men. so if they lose 3 seniors and add 1 recruit it may be that they were getting ready for the proposed cut to 13 next year. perhaps it's a league thing, APR issue, or there is no way to keep 15 scholarship players happy. the NCAA ended up decdided againt reducing it from 15 to 13. who knows why they are cutting a couple, but i'm sure they are Title IX compliant. that is a headache no one wants.

NCAA considers cutting football and women's basketball scholarships

Coaches leery of proposed scholarship cuts


Coaches weigh in on scholarships

[dsummitfan]

Voice, it doesn't matter who brings it what money... TITLE IX states that equal amout of funds have to be spent on men and women!!!!! I promise you that isn't happening at ORU...

[ORUTerry]

Not true. Title IX stipulates that equal scholarships (in total) have to be made available to women and equal opportunity for involvement. Women's sports at most (all) universities is money loser and is sustained by the funds raised by men's sports. You may not like it, but that is the truth.

ORU has four tier-one sports: men's basketball, women's basketball, baseball and volleyball. The athletic department focuses most of its attention on these four sports. All of the sports have equal opportunity to raise funds for projects. It is just easier for the men's sports to do so. Men's basketball raises money through donations, guarantee games, etc. Those opportunities are just not available to the women for the most part. The athletic department/university provides scholarships (tuition, housing, etc) as well as practice facilities, coaches, trainers, etc. As far as promotion is concerned, the athletic department works as hard as it can to promote both men's and women's sports. The truth is that the market for women's athletics is much smaller than for men's.

[dsummitfan]

TITLE IX, Terry, States that equal amount of money has to be spent on Media, Promotions, Equipment, Coaching Staff, Scholarships and so forth!!! If you disagree, read the title xi by laws, they are easy to find! I wish one of the players parents would stand up to the athletic dpt and challenge them to show proof that they are in compliance with title xi

[SOLO_Gold]

dsummitfan, on 15 February 2012 - 05:50 PM, said:

TITLE IX, Terry, States that equal amount of money has to be spent on Media, Promotions, Equipment, Coaching Staff, Scholarships and so forth!!! If you disagree, read the title xi by laws, they are easy to find! I wish one of the players parents would stand up to the athletic dpt and challenge them to show proof that they are in compliance with title xi

You have to be kidding me. If you're going to be this bold... please know what you're talking about.


Q. Does Title IX require that equal dollars be spent on men and women's sports?[indent]
No. The only provision that requires that the same dollars be spent proportional to participation is scholarships. Otherwise, male and female student-athletes must receive equitable "treatment" and "benefits."[/indent]


http://www.ncaa.org/...aq.html#dollars

[MrsSmith]

dsummitfan, on 15 February 2012 - 05:50 PM, said:

TITLE IX, Terry, States that equal amount of money has to be spent on Media, Promotions, Equipment, Coaching Staff, Scholarships and so forth!!! If you disagree, read the title xi by laws, they are easy to find! I wish one of the players parents would stand up to the athletic dpt and challenge them to show proof that they are in compliance with title xi

Dsummit - I did look it up and easily found that you are incorrect.
http://www.ncaa.org/...ix/faq.html#how
Please check your facts before posting.

[ORU Fan]

dsummitfan, on 15 February 2012 - 05:50 PM, said:

TITLE IX, Terry, States that equal amount of money has to be spent on Media, Promotions, Equipment, Coaching Staff, Scholarships and so forth!!! If you disagree, read the title xi by laws, they are easy to find! I wish one of the players parents would stand up to the athletic dpt and challenge them to show proof that they are in compliance with title xi

<sup>My daughter plays for ORU. I'm happy to stand up to the ORU athletic department and say Thank You. My daughter's tuition, room and board is paid. She has access to excellent medical care. The training facilities are nice and easily availalbe. The coaching staff is truly concerned about my daughter both on and off the court.

With the possible exception of beach volleyball, women's sports have always been less attended than men's. And because ORU does not have a money-making football venture, there may be less funds available to support other sports. But I can assure you it's the same everywhere.

I don't always agree with the coaching staff, I'm not always pleased with the team's performance.. but I am always appreciative of ORU's generosity.</sup>

[dsummitfan]

It is plain as day right here....

Q. How is Title IX applied to athletics? [indent]
Athletics programs are considered educational programs and activities. There are three basic parts of Title IX as it applies to athletics:

• Participation: Title IX requires that women and men be provided equitable opportunities to participate in sports. Title IX does not require institutions to offer identical sports but an equal opportunity to play;
  
• Scholarships: Title IX requires that female and male student-athletes receive athletics scholarship dollars proportional to their participation; and
  
• Other benefits: Title IX requires the equal treatment of female and male student-athletes in the provisions of: (a) equipment and supplies; ( scheduling of games and practice times; © travel and daily allowance/per diem; (d) access to tutoring; (e) coaching, (f) locker rooms, practice and competitive facilities; (g) medical and training facilities and services; (h) housing and dining facilities and services; (i) publicity and promotions; (j) support services and (k) recruitment of student-athlete

[/indent]
Number 3 states exactly what I am talking about... Equal treatment in publicity and promotions and recruitment!!!!! Just like I said

[dsummitfan]

I was saying that they have to spend equal money on promotions and media and recruiting dollars.... I

[SOLO_Gold]

dsummitfan, on 15 February 2012 - 07:29 PM, said:

Mrs Smith & Solo Gold, please read the above post to see what I was referring to!.

You're unbelievable. Read this:

Q. Does Title IX require that equal dollars be spent on men and women's sports?[indent]
No. The only provision that requires that the same dollars be spent proportional to participation is scholarships. Otherwise, male and female student-athletes must receive equitable "treatment" and "benefits."[/indent]


http://www.ncaa.org/...aq.html#dollars

[dsummitfan]

Guess I didn't read far enough, either way the girls are short their alotment for scholarships!

[dsummitfan]

but why does it say where I bold typed differently??

• Other benefits: Title IX requires the equal treatment of female and male student-athletes in the provisions of: (a) equipment and supplies; (../../../public/style_emoticons/default/cool.png scheduling of games and practice times; © travel and daily allowance/per diem; (d) access to tutoring; (e) coaching, (f) locker rooms, practice and competitive facilities; (g) medical and training facilities and services; (h) housing and dining facilities and services; (i) publicity and promotions; (j) support services and (k) recruitment of student-athlete

[tmh8286]

So what's your point, dsummitfan? You just trying to rock the boat? As long as I've been following ORU athletics they've had a compliance officer to make sure we're in compliance with NCAA regs, including Title IX. Now, if you think you know more than our experts who do the job for a living, take it up with them.

Give it a rest here.

[dsummitfan]

I am asking a question, I didnt blame anyone, I just asked a ? based off of my observations!! Not trying to rock any boat...

[JJONES]

dsummitfan, I brought up the same issue a couple years ago only to have my post removed and asked not to "air dirty laundry" of the athletic department. It isn't worth wasting your time or energy. You and I and R2B1 are not the only ones who see these things but there isn't anything we can do......

TMH is probably right, let it go unless you want a storm of kool-aid drinkers on ya!

[theeagleman5]

....have some sympathy for the dead horse, will ya?......